Has LB become too political?

I’m sure we all have the ability to reason on our own. Whether this ability or trust in reason, can be used a guiding light, to resolve different opinions is another matter.

Have you read CMB_2006’s posts? Obfuscating; tangential and elliptical thinking in order to avoid answering direct questions posted to him, form the basis of his hatred. Reason is too often eclipsed by rationalisation or intellectualisation when he attempts to use it with a little less grace than the incumbent BNP leader.

Many here call CMB_2006’ hatred an ‘opinion’. An opinion can be formed on ideas; as much as an opinion can be formed on feelings. Justification of hatred - should this be levelled as equal to others’ opinions? In English law, we do not accept this confusion between ‘inciting hatred’ (one extreme) and simply ‘expressing an opinion’, which is better stated, as ‘expressing one’s hatred’.

The question for me, is whether LB should continue to let CMB_2006 and others, express their hatred. How does that make you look, as members of this forum? How does it make you look, to car drivers, who might see the kind of racist drivel spouted here? Won’t it make them want to run you over? Driesie is correct in my view, in raising this question of: "How do I come across, if I associate myself, with a forum whose moral standard of behaviour, is complacent; indifferent, and fails to distinguish between ‘expressing hatred towards foreigners, refugees and vulnerable children’.
His question is fundamentally, one about social feedback: those of us who aren’t sociopaths, listen to what others tell us about us. We listen and modify or reflect on what others tell us, and we ‘fit in’ because reason (or compassion) makes sense to us.

This is not true for some…

Not everyone sees this clearly: I’ve already annexed the quotes from previous posters, who justify racist posts like CMB_2006’s as “an opinion”.

I wish I could agree with you that it doesn’t take much to see through such a guise, to detect the fomenting hatred underneath. Why is it, others on the board, justify his hatred? Have a look at the poll results; have a look at the anecdotal comments. Complacency and indifference, are currently riding high. The trolls on the opposite extreme, positively relish in making a joke of it (and happy Christmas to them in Troll Heaven too :P)

My point is that reason is not the guiding light for humanitarian behaviour.

Most of us adopt a position and defend it - by rationalising. Rather than using reason to explore and modify our behaviour. In that respect, you are correct to some extent, that I am suspicious of reasoning. Compassion is a better guide than reason, for telling us what our position towards the orphans and the widows should be.

I don’t have room in my heart to tolerate such hatred. Maybe spending over a decade of my life working for a charity taught me something about people which spouting from an armchair can’t. Maybe that is what compassion is: it stops us by shaping us from being the detached and self-centred little boy at the heart of the intellectual spouting who tries to elevate himself above others, because of his inner insecurities.

i think wot people are also forgetting it is called Londonbikers there fore has 2 things that bring us together, London and bikers so issues that happen in london will also get discussed.

Personally I think some good old robust debates about issues from different viewpoints adds to the spice of the site. Banter, humour, serious debate etc are all part of the forum. As long as we stick to the issues and don’t start getting too offensive towards people or groups of people, too personal or nasty.

A very sound response - thankyou. Glad to hear from admin they don’t want racist posts on here.

I accept that is it difficult especially when, as with cmb, it is like nailing jelly to wall.

Am also pleased to hear you guys have made some attempts to moderate cmb in paticular.

Thanks Andrew for addressing this.

Sorry to Londonbikers (but not the individual concerned) for getting personal.

Scooterassassin, you reason eloquently and put across your point of view well.

You have a heartfelt view, shaped by your experience, which gives you the standpoint that you have.

Equally, others have a different view and standpoint.

I respect your point of view, but in essence, yours, as well as mine are just words on a page which can be ignored, acted upon, rallied against or dismissed as the reader sees fit.

My original point is that we should not give credence to objectionable views by acting upon or even discussing them. I have no desire to read the posts as you suggest, they aren’t worth my time.

I think you are right.

In my case my personal experience of this type of person has clouded my judgement.

cmb is full of spite and hate and obviously has personal problems.

He should just be ignored.

ahem!..jeez this thread made me log in, first time i have in quite a while…:w00t:

it has got a bit political yes,

but everyones entilted to there views i suppose…

on a bike forum, i dont really see the point of a current affairs thread at all, it seems to serve a purpose of gettign poeple wound up, then the differign views come out…then it all kicks off.

one of the reasons i rarely log in anymore, is i dunno it seems something is missing from LB, its not the same as it was?

sod current affairs lets talk bikes! :slight_smile:

We are watching this post as with all posts but you have to understand it’s not an easy stand point, i have my own views on this matter but have refused to be drawn into the debate. I might suggest a few members do likewise. If it’s ok with everyone i am moving this to the current affairs section.

Well I’d have thought people had the intelligence and basic tolerance to accept the validity of a wide range of views (political or otherwise), all of which are equally valid in a modern secular democracy (albeit one which is arguably being dragged backwards through exterior forces acting upon it) - and that the internet is a good place to discuss these views rationally and with respect for one another’s opinions.
There is nothing wrong with arguing your point.
Current affairs is merely one sub-section of a rather large forum categorisation, if someone comes here wanting to talk about motorcycles or insurance claims that too has plenty of forum space.
There are seldom more than two forum topics devoted to the ‘big issue’ of immigration at any one time on here, so its hardly disproportionate for a topic of such significance to the majority of people in this country…

And just to add to Andrew’s post I replied to the email I got when someone reported the post - I didn’t reply to the forum post as I make a point of not doing that - PM or use the post report functions if you see something that offends

LB is receptive to the feedback of its members, so this is a good discussion, we need to know if something goes against the wishes of the community, and sometimes this isn’t obvious, especially if people don’t use the Report Thread feature or let us know in other ways.

The Current Affairs forum was created not to encourage controversial discussions, just to have a place for discussions people were already making. We wanted to keep these discussions separate from the bike talk.

Of course this is a biking site first and foremost, but people always have and always will talk about whatever is on their mind, more-so because we are such a big community, it gives a great place for people to air their minds.

If we need to make changes to our moderation approach then we’ll do it, but as I’m sure you can appreciate, we’re hesitant to make changes unnecessarily as we don’t want to be accused of over-moderation and taking away fun from the site.

We do need more bike-talk, but we’re in the thick of winter now, with very not many people riding their bikes, so we’re going to be hard pushed to keep it two-wheels related all the time!

Just in case it isn’t obvious, LB is a place for bikers, not for those wanting to spread their hatred or bigoted and aggressive ‘opinions’. Racism or any such offensive statements have no place here and will be acted on when reported or noticed.

I’ll be keeping an eye on this thread as will the other mods, because if there are changes to be made, it needs to come from the community.

this is true, it does quiten down in winter, i might juist be me>? but it seemed ‘quite’ before winter had properly kicked in?

i just think the current affairs section can and does cause a bit of aggro.

I dont mind was my answer :DI dont get involved too much in some of the posts as you will see from my profile and site visit to post count :w00t: mainly due to my own personal circumstances but I do enjoy reading the site, chipping in occasionally. However I am hoping to get involved in bike stuff when commitments allow one day like turn up to a meet, ride out and participate however one suggestion I would have and I have seen it used on another site is an option to ignore cetain people or even certain sections of the forum. That way you can please your self and either add them to your ignore list or stop being notified of the posts etc.

Just a thought… :smiley:

Rats!! Not seen you on here for a while old boy! Glad the knee downs are still going strong. You did not fancy dressing up as a ‘laydee’ then with the other chaps at BM?

Whoops - off topic here now - lol

hey hels!

i went AWOL for a bit…

yah still KDing it up, nto in this weather tho, had much fun while couriering, KD round hyde park corner was amusing! on a CBF500F…:smiley:

nah not me, not much of a social cat;)

catch up soon hels, i PM ya back!:smiley:

I also think the current affairs section raises too many offensive opinions, wouldn’t mind a ‘Services’ section, where people can advertise jobs and services and training to Lb members. I know there is a Jobs section already but it doesn’t seem very full…maybe due to the £20 fee… :wink:

I hear what you are saying, however I don’t subscribe to a ‘action philosophy’ which seeks to persuade or proselytise or convince others of a line of action. That line of action…is free for the individual to take. This is choice; existential choice. To dismiss, or dissolve any concern; to water down and downplay, or to sit up and take notice.

When we ignore racism and fundamentalism so as not to feed the troll; is there any distinction, between failing to act (morally or ethically), or being passive and inertly accepting of it?

If there is a difference between moral cowardice and passively ignoring evil in society; evil gains a foothold when good men do nothing.

Am I mistaken? Who the hell have I just quoted? I don’t even recall…:cool:

Nothing to add, but the title reminds me of this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGZWAoXy-C4

Bimey, I had hoped this would spark a little discussion but didn’t think it was going to be this bad :wink:

I appreciate the Mods coming in here and making their point. But I just want to stress again, my comment wasn’t a criticism of the mods.

I feel like I failed to put my point through correctly, and I am saddened that this topic has again turned into a political discussion (and moved to the Current Affairs forum) while I was just trying to avoid that.

I think Ratty says it correctly, it used to be fun and bikes, but the Current Affairs forum seems to have achieved something that I don’t think adds much to LB.

I think some views that are expressed have been offensive to some of us, but that was not my point. I would rather that no extreme political views would be discussed because I think it turns people away.
I have received a PM from a new member confirming my fears. Some people, in the group mostly targeted in this political “banter”, are afraid of turning up to meets because they don’t feel welcome. You can say it’s their own fault and they should accept people’s views, but that’s not the point. The point is that we don’t make other ** BIKERS ** welcome by discussing non-bike topics in a particular way.
That’s completely the opposite to what I felt when I joined. I always felt like LB was one of the more “liberal” forums where it doesn’t matter what bike you ride, how long you have been riding, whether you’re male or female … That’s not the impression you get from the forum these days.

Let me try to put it a different way. Say you joined a football club. You get on with the other players and have a few good games. Then suddenly a couple of the team mates start expressing extreme political views that you don’t agree with or even offend you because they target people “like you”. And they don’t do this once, but every time you meet up. Would you still enjoy playing football with these people?
That’s my point. I don’t mind people having their own view, and I don’t mind discussing them, but I don’t want to be associated with a group that openly gives the impression it has some sort of extreme view that I find offensive.

So, I would prefer people wouldn’t post stuff that they wouldn’t say to a stranger who they don’t know or don’t know well. If people want to discuss politics in detail, or topics that may offend, meet up, have coffee, tea or a beer and do it in private.

That’s my view anyway.