Personally - I rarely start contentious debates - I think my last one was on Gary Mackinons extradition.I always came on here for the bikes and the fellow bikers - most of my posts are either biking related or just light heartedly take the p1ss out of whatever.
There is also nothing wrong with discussing immigration - a lot of regulars on here do it and we usually have a sensible debate.
Trouble is cmb_2006 obviously has a far-right agenda - every few posts the mask slips and we get an idea of where he’s really coming from.
It also seems to be mostly the only thing he talks about.
I had a rough time growing up because I wasn’t totally British (I’m half) - from the likes of people like cmb_2006 - but I stuck up for myself and fought back either verbally or physically.
I’m f*cked if at this point in my life I’m gonna have people like this make me feel uncomfortable again. Ain’t going to happen.
I’m always polite to people on here and never resort to crude insults - but this person has tried my patience.
As I’ve said before - I have no problem meeting this person face to face where I will say everything I’ve said on here and more in person. I’ve already invited a pm but got no response - still waiting.
I agree with some of the comments above - It’s fine to debate these subjects - because most of the regulars on here I know are decent folks even if I don’t agree with them on a subject - but cmb_2006 is just depressing.
EDITED: dealing with the far right in this country is probably going to become an increasing challenge if the economy etc worsens. So how do we deal with the likes of cmb ?
We can’t let one or a few individuals bring the site down and make it a less welcoming place than the place I remember visiting for the first time a few years back.
I agree with you ppg, and I’m glad this topic has sparked a discussion, one that maybe people will think about before posting.Maybe it sounded like one, but it definitely was NOT a complaint against then moderation team. I agree with you that everybody has an opinion and that discussion opinions is healthy and interesting. I love politics and very frequently debate this with friends and family.
And I definitely wouldn’t want the mods to remove any posts because they support one political opinion or another because then LB would take a side. My main problem is more that more and more of the active topics turn out to be political discussions rather than bike related, and this is something only us as a community can address, not the forum mods.How many people would turn up at a BMM (I admit, haven’t been to one for a little while, but that’s for family reasons) and openly declare to everybody that is there that this country is full and all immigrants should go home? It’s a bike meet, so most people would find that in-appropriate. People are there to discuss bikes, bike stories, make some friends and maybe organise a ride. If people then want to discuss politics with other members who choose to do so, then so be it. But mainly, there are other forums to discuss this.The way I think about it is that if I would tell a friend about LB, he or she would visit and see some of the topics being discussed in the “current affairs” group, what image would they make up of LB? Would they be interested in coming to a meet or joining in?
I joined because it was a friendly forum, yes people have opinions but generally were/are respectful, and it didn’t matter what bike I rode or how long I had been riding. That’s what I think is a strength of this particular forum. However, if I was new now, I wouldn’t dare posting or coming to a meet in fear for being told to stop overcrowding the “our” streets. There are certainly certain members who I wouldn’t be able to see face-to-face and go for a ride with. I probably would have if it wasn’t that they created a certain image of themselves that portraits hatred.
I know it’s only a minority that think so, but it doesn’t sound like it.I have avoided talking about the LB “brand” because it may sound poncy, but maybe it’s an easier way of explaining my position.
When I joined 2 years ago, for me the LB brand meant “friendly, bikers of all sorts, riding in or around London”. Now for me the brand has a lot of different associations, and it is therefore that I can’t advertise it anymore. As somebody else said above, it’s not the sort of “brand” I want to be associated with.
I dont object to political debates on a biking forum, but when you have someone describing asylum seekers as “vermin”, I think things have gone way too far.
cmb has never been on a rideout/meet from what I can tell and he appears to simply be a far right supporter who goes on this site (and others) with the sole intention of sprouting his anti immigration / anti migration message. I think his view on the world is a very sad one and not just based on ignorance, but also hatred. The term “vermin” is clearly full of hatred.
So…LB too political? No.
Some posts / posters offensive? Yes.
Admin doing nothing about it? Yes.
[quote]
Whether it should be acceptable or not is another matter. Perhaps you need a few of the racists here to show you what kind of content exists on neo-nazi and anti-semitic forums, to understand the difference between acceptable ‘opinion’, and the more extreme…?/quote]
Erm no actually I don’t, why would I want to go on such sites? Surely visiting them would constitute some form of condoning them?
I know what’s acceptable to me, ergo I am my own censor, I really don’t need to be told…
Ninja et al, I don’t really have much experience of the poster you’re referring to, but what I have seen is disagreeable to me.
Isn’t the best way to deal with this simply not too engage objectionable individuals by replying to the posts. Surely by engaging them you validate their arguments?
I agree with you Stripled - that does make sense - on the other hand if you let this kind of stuff stand without a proper rebuttal there is danger that it ends up being seen as the ‘truth’ .
However having such racists freely spout on LB - does that not condone racism? :doze:
What kind of condoning would you like to see?
This type:
Or this type:
Or this type:
Or this type:
Or this type:
Or this type: **
Perhaps in the future, none of us would ever need to have some of the racist forum members direct us to an anti-semitic or neo-nazi site. We will be able to savour the experience right here on LB in the face of such dominant complacency and failure to distinguish between having an opinion, and inciting hatred. Hatred dressed up as an opinion doesn’t take much to see through it: I guess it depends how you see things.
Has LB become too political? Bets on that CMB_2006 voted this one: “No, I quite enjoy it”
Dinnae fash yirsel hinny, he’s an eejit. An’ more’n likely a heid-the-ba’ an’ a’.
Some people should never be taken too seriously or seriously at all. Surely the simplistic and frightened little world of the Fascist is of a time long past? Don’t waste youir time.
I think the issue is not about politics, but about inclusion. Is LB a community that’s inclusive to all, or not? And by inclusive, I mean also being able to debate - with a level of respect for others. For example, I noticed a newbie on here, a guy who was a Sikh. One of the first threads he encounters is one banging on about ‘Have you seen a Sikh on a bike?’ As a new member - I doubt that made him feel very welcome or included.
CMBs views on immigration are diametrically opposite to mine. In a sense very few of us on here are ‘pure English’. Much of my family orginally herald from southern Ireland, there’s a vast swathe from Scotland and I looked up my surname on the Scottish side and it originally came from France in the Norman times. So how many people banging on about ‘England’ can trace their roots back more than a generation or so? And, why should it matter?
We can debate, yes, have discussions - but when these discussions and debates start to verge on excluding others, or ridiculing them in a personal manner because of their race, religion, culture, immigration status or whatever - then we can’t call ourselves an ‘inclusive community.’
Just as we accept bikers of all persuasions on here - ranging from scooters, to Harleys, to supermotos, to 125s, to road bikers, v twins etc etc, so we can try and accept Londoners in all their diversity on here, without being offensive.
Well, not really. I believe that most of the individuals that regularly inhabit/contribute to this site/forum are a (fairly, well, for bikers anyway ) well adjusted, sensible thinking mob.
Eventually, if there is no response to outlandish and inappropriate postings then said poster will get bored ( or go far enough to be banned ) of having no one to argue his/her case, we soon get to know what’s coming from certain posters - you only have to check Smileds posts in the adult section!! You know what you’re gonna get
If it’s kept in current affairs then what’s the harm? I agree that someone new to the site might dip in there and get a shock - perhaps put a restriction on it? Like you’ve posted x times, or been a member x days or something. That kinda makes people joining the site be part of the biking community first and foremost, instead of coming on for the political piece.
scooterassassin - Sorry I can’t agree with all of this paragraph :
“Perhaps in the future, none of us would ever need to have some of the racist forum members direct us to an anti-semitic or neo-nazi site. We will be able to savour the experience right here on LB in the face of such dominant complacency and failure to distinguish between having an opinion, and inciting hatred. Hatred dressed up as an opinion doesn’t take much to see through it: I guess it depends how you see thing”
That assumes that we have no reasoning ability of our own? Of course this won’t be a forum where one will be able to savour racist and anti semetic views, You’re exactly right when you state " it doesn’t take much to see through it".
So what I can gather from the discussion so far is that there are a number of people who perceive some posts are racist and/or bigotted, and this member cmb is being highlighted as an example.
Now, what to do. (Aside from reporting issues to the Mod team as and when you are offended by them, which I doubt happened so no point me beating my finger ends about it in length. )
**PLease let me know either via pm or on this thread. Clearly this is important to many of you so in between having a life and Xmas shopping we will try and sort this to everyone’s satisfaction. **
But remember, two wrongs do not make a right so no more personal attacks on CMB or anyone else please. Report any member officially to the mod team instead.
And I will be expecting at least ** one volunteer to act as a Moderator** from those of you standing by Driesie on this issue. Clearly our current team haven’t met your needs, perhaps one of you can help address that.
I make that three times now that cmb has used the term “vermin” to describe these young Afghanis.
Is there any point at which you will intervene and either remove such posts and/or block the poster from the forum?
Am all for freedom of speach and people having different views, but such language is full of hatred and I would argue you have a responsibility to ensure the forum isn’t being used to incite racial hatred.
That responsibility doesn’t seem to be being met at the moment.
Ok fair point, and having now looked in the admin section I see that the team have indeed acted on the 18th actually, the member in question received two PMs - one from a Mod and the other from Panda (Patrick) who oversees the running of the Forum in general.
Since the term ‘Vermin’ was non specific (it doesn’t need a hard think to know what the intentions were I know) unfortunately we then find ourselves in the grey area of interpretation. The mod team will have a look at posts the member has made since then and see if they have been behaving themselves and act accordingly if not.
I don’t want racists on here any more than you do. It’s bad in every regard and undermines everything the efforts put into the site for the last 5 years. Catching them is harder though and banning people because of what we think they believe is a road I’d rather not travel.
I’ve got to go out now, but I will check in with the mod team and can still receive PM’s etc while shopping.
