Personally, I enjoy visiting LB less these days. This is because it has become more and more political and, often reads like a right wing political message board. I log in and expect another post that will make my blood boil, and particularly as an “immigrant” or “foreigner” I feel less welcome than I used to.
I realise that some of the views I find offencive are only supported by a minority, but this small minority is maybe ruining it for the rest.
I don’t mind political debates, and I think everybody has the right to their own view, but I don’t think online forums are the right medium to discuss these, and more importantly, I don’t think LB is the right place.
I know LB always had some banter, some of that turning political, but not to the extend it has now and they usually started of with a discussion about bikes. I would prefer if non-bike political issues weren’t discussed here.
Recently, I started removing LB stickers and wouldn’t wear merchandising anymore. Simply because I’m afraid somebody will associate me with some of the offencive views raised on here. I also stopped telling people about LB.
I personally think that’s a shame, and would be interested to know if I’m in a minority to think so or if others feel the same about this.
Why??? I am an immigrant, and I am from the right wing of the political spectrum… But it has nothing to do with where you are from. I just hate slackers that live of benefits. English, or otherwise!!!
If you did not dismiss everything I say just because I am me, you would find out that in a very political incorrect way, I am usually right! I just can’t be f*cked putting it in way that don’t just offend people (mostly because I can’t give a **** about those that are that sensible :))
I thought this was a biking community and that’s what I was happy to join. But I used to read through all sections and now don’t look at current affairs anymore as some of the comments and people on there are not the kind of people I would like to associate or be associated with.
I don’t know if its becoming too political. Politics can be rational without devolving into thinly veiled racist jibes. On LB it is not. It is mostly the same names spewing that kind of thinly veiled venom time and again against foreigners; the non-endemic, or the vulnerable, including children in plight.
That the moderation team on LB fail to make a stand, either suggests that they lack the courage (and conviction) to refuse a platform for the propagation of such extremism. Or, that they passively support it because they ‘don’t see the point’ or any harm in it.
I do come less and less here - I don’t want to share company with such closet right wing extremists either. It’s a shame because there are way more peeps here on the forum who are not like that. Democratic forums do not need to incite hatred towards minority groups like some do here; democratic forums do not need to tolerate racists and extremists: this is not a feature of democratic society.
That the moderation team have done nothing about it, does indeed give the impression that they condone the kind of racist drivel being spouted out on this forum board. I can only guess that they are actually happy with this status quo, until they show otherwise.
Well other bike clubs and forums are a lot harsh and more honest with how they speak their mind. LB has always been the same for me and have been on the boards for about 4 years - I just don’t take everything personally what’s said on here, cos life is too short to worry about it.
I have my own mind and my own opinion and that’s all that matters
I don’t think it’s possible to be too political. Most people (especially bikers) will always have something to say and I am really quite glad that everyone is different, because for me, living together on this planet is all about give as well as take: balance. Without the Right, the Left and Centre do not exist. Without Bad, there isn’t a concept such as Good. Also, I feel that forums like this are a really good place to get an idea of various opinions. The ONLY thing that we all have in common is the fact that we like or ride bikes and have some sort of association with London. The fact that we all have such differing opinions on things is evidence to disuade those that think of a stereotype when they mention “bikers”.
I disagree and feel very strongly about a lot of things on this website. I also agree and am sometimes nonchalant about stuff that is on here.
Surely something that makes you think about the world is a good thing?! We cant all be part of the majority opinion all the time and wouldnt it be boring if everything we read was what we agreed with!? We’d have nothing to say!
What I would say, however, is that I think that sometimes the way people express themselves in writing isnt helpful. Also, making things personal or attacking people personally can be particularly unhelpful.
Otherwise, I think the Mods do a really good job in keeping people in check without curbing Freedom of Speech ;)EDIT: typo
Well sorry you feel that way Driesie but there is no intent to have the site leaning one way or another.
Unfortunately as an owner of the site and ex-moderator of it there is a huge problem with letting people have their say and then trying to control it. Everybody is on the watch for raciscm but as far as political views go, well if we do start controlling this then we leave ourselves open to all manner of criticisms we don’t want, need or have time for.
Don’t forget that the people posting only make up a fraction of the total members, and that perhaps if more people joined in with discussions then a more balanced view could be achieved no? By leaving the site you are not going to change anything, in fact you are feeding the very situation you despise so much.
As far as removing stickers and not telling people about us, or dishing the site if it gets that far doesn’t really seem fair when the problem is that a vocal minority may not share your political views man.
Take a while to think about it before making any more hasty decisions eh? And let me know what you think we could do to help.
It’s a forum isn’t it? You’re going to get all types. There are ways and means of getting a point or even a dodgy opinion across without it being too spikey. Bit of humilty and respect here and there is good for the sole, mind you, so’s a bit p*ss ripping. Life’s way too short … just been rudely reminded of that little fact :w00t:
looks at it as racism if you want, i dont, but maybe its just wots wrong with this country and the people who live in it are getting more and more pi55ed off about it and bringin the issus up on forums they visit
obviously another case of we cant say a thing about cos then we are racist b0ll0x.
Me too. But after a while on the forum, it’s become clear, that it’s becoming a biking community with a pernicious group in it.
The majority, are typical of us English: middle-class; don’t want to kick up a fuss, and try and smooth everything under the carpet pretending it’s all - all right, in the name of ‘democracy’.
The problem is, we don’t have a clue about what democracy is, other than a four letter syllable. Democracy, demands courage: not moral weakness, which says 'it’s okay because ‘freedom of speech is important’. Freedom of speech is always balanced, by humanitarian concerns. When it exists by itself in a vacuum, freedom of speech is nothing more than drivel spouted by racists, extremists, fundamentalists who pollute our society and degrade it.
This isn’t freedom of speech nor toleration. This is ‘complacency’.
Ha, as this is nothing to do with bikes, ( per se. ),shouldn’t it be in Current Affairs?
Well, opinions are like bottoms, everybody’s got one - some like to air their opinions, some like to read other peoples opinion’s, etc., etc.
There may be a certain amount of cross subjecting ( see my first sentence),but, in general simply stick to the parts of the forum that you enjoy or are interested in.
It’s not really the mod’s job to censure opinion, just to safeguard the legality of topic rather than to apply their own personal beliefs of what is and what isn’t offensive.
If you’re unhappy about something then you too can ( and have) voiced an opinion - we all have the right of choice.
I think the topic up for discussion kind of fits with the cyclical nature of forums - you just need to ride it out until it fulfils something inside you again.
Personally, I wouldn’t have removed my stickers - I’m proud to be a londonbiker and having used a number of other forums, I’ve found this one to be one of the most accomodating communities online (by that I mean online communities in general - not just biking).
There are threads that I itch to get into and start shouting about other people’s lack of ethics or questionable morals, but I don’t - I just stay away from those topics. Experience has taught me that you only end up with a bad taste in your mouth, so might as well stay happy and ignore the ignorant
Like Lou said - I got my own mind and my own opinions and I try to only worry about the things that I can influence.
…and thus condone complacency towards racists and extremists?
Eheh.
It’s a forum; even fora have a minimum standard.
It goes beyond ‘mere’ opinion too. It would be convenient, if it was just a disagreement between fora users of ‘different opinions’.
Is this kind of watered-down relativism which fails to see extremism as anything ‘other than opinion’, characteristic of the majority?
Probably. Whether it should be acceptable or not is another matter. Perhaps you need a few of the racists here to show you what kind of content exists on neo-nazi and anti-semitic forums, to understand the difference between acceptable ‘opinion’, and the more extreme…?
People are people, where ever they are there’ll be difference of opinion.
If discussions turn political you’re bound to find things posted you dont agree with, there are threads i read but dont reply to, it doesnt mean i dont have an opinion!
I think the mods do a great job on here of giving everyone just enough rope, and its unlikely you’ll ever know what they’ve changed, removed, deleted, PM’d members about etc…
This is a biking forum - and unlike many - some of the people actually meet up, have rides out and know each other a little - so perhaps feel comfortable with debating.
I find the thing with ‘online’ personas - is that people can often be ‘keyboard warriors’ on the net and pussycats in real life. When writing things down, sometimes people can come across as quite harsh - when if they were speaking verbally they would not.
I think that just as in any forum we can pick and choose where to go - for example - I don’t go in the cruiser section because I’m just not into cruisers. As in society there’s a huge amount of diversity on the forum and in the biker community. If we don’t want to join in a topic - we need not - and we can ignore people who get our backs up.
Having said that I’ve been having a ding dong with cmb wotsit on two threads, because I disagree with his views on Afghan asylum seekers. That’s just because having lived in the country I’m interested in putting across my point of view.
There’s a fine line between moderating too much - and allowing all to have a say - and for me I kind of think LB gets the balance right. I have seen FAR worse on other biker forums lol
