0views are, if you have any.
I’m keeping an open mind on this one.
There’s a whole bunch old historic ethnic and religious enmities there and the region can still pretty “tribal”.
Throw in some modern politics, some pretty random boundaries, a stroppy Russian leader, a pro American local president (sorry, Secretary) and you have an interesting brew.
In truth, I don’t know enough about much of the old southern USSR republics to quite understand or have an “opinion”, which make watching the news quite interesting.
I bet Alabama and South Carolina are crapping themselves !!,
but i would have thought it would have been more fun invading Florida!!!
I’m not an expert on the Caucasus but I read an interesting article in the Guardian on Saturday:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/09/georgia.russia1
The writer highlights the popularity of Russian troops in south Ossettia, where the Russians are seen as protecting the people against ethnic cleansing by the Georgians.
He also questions president Saakashvili’s motives - arguing that Saakashvili started the war to divert attention from Georgia’s domestic economic crisis and allegations of corruption and nepotism within his regime. In this sense he compares Georgia’s actions to Argentina in 1982 - when the Argentine junta invaded the Falklands to divert public attention from their own failures and abuses while in government.
Finally he accuses the west in engaging in ‘cold war simplicites’ in comparing the Russian invasion to Prague in 68 etc.
My personal opinion is that western powers have been too aggressive in their dealings with Russia since the end of the cold war (welcoming border countries into NATO and proposing anti-missile sites in Poland). This aggressive policy has left the Russians feeling humiliated and insecure - which is counter-productive as it has delivered Russia to the hardliners (Putin etc) - more respect and tact over the last twenty years might have produced a more positive relationship with this great power.
+1
Check out this quote from BBC article: European diplomats and foreign ministers have conceded they will struggle to regain the initiative in the conflict between Russia and Georgia. They talk in the darkest terms of a possible return to tensions the likes of which Europe has not seen since World War II. Several have even compared events to Nazi Germany’s annexation of the Sudetenland.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7554925.stm
Personally I think that the downgrading of the UN in recent years has been a horrendous mistake. (the coup de grace to UN authority was delivered by U.S./British invasion of Iraq).
We have to set up UN again as THE authoritative, capable international body to which countries go to settle disputes. The UNs current state of neglect has left the world a much more dangerous place. The UN should also be capable of enforcing it’s descisions (which requires the military support of key nation states). A strong UN will help to prevent the international chaos which is becoming a feature of the 21st century and which threatens to engulf us all.
People have critiscised the UN as being nothing more than a ‘talking shop’ - but as Churchill said ‘jaw jaw is better than war, war’.
0
+1
Serbia - NATO air forces against few old MiG’s
ive got a very bad feeling about this guys…sorry…
I was brought up in a US military establishment(RAF Lakenheath) with my father being a pilot in the USAF,all the way threw the 80’s and were made to fear/hate the former USSR all through my childhood.
Ive always kept a close eye on the soviet union,as they are a power not to turn a blind eye too…dont get me wrong…ive grown up sisnce commy bashing…and have real close Russian freinds(2 of them actully…lol)…but i think i will be watching this saga very closley.
my father just rang me in the states and we have been talking about it for over an hour now…he seems to think that the reason for russia invading Geogia,is because Georgia want to join NATO like Poland,Hungary ect…if Georgia join NATO then Russia will be surrounded…and that puts them alittle on edge…i see his point from looking at it, as russia moblised alot of troops,armour in lightning speed…when Georgia went to meet invading forces…
im not what so ever sideing with anyone…but just keeping an open mind and am going to watch the news with great intrest…
smiled:).
0
Hey smiled,
What did your pa fly?.
Its all i wanted to be when i was younger but my eyesight let me down…gutted.
hey kempo…long time me old mate…:w00t:.hope you and the wife are doing fine mate…give her hugs from me will ya!!
anyways…ahem…topic in hand ere…lol
my father flew the EF-111 from Lakenheath…the base was designed to keep an eye on the USSR…that and RAF Mildenhall…(also stationed there)…who as well as tankers flying outta there KC135’s…the EC-135(AWACS) flew from there and of course the SR-71 Blackbird (det 4 were the squadren and also sponsord my boyscout troop…lol) and they were all there to keep an eye on the USSR…
to be honest with you mate…the US are ******** themselves at the moment as if Russia turn the’re backs on the rest of the world…then …well…we know what could happen dont we…
Bush has said that the United States would back Goergia and has had his bluff called…remember when Iraq invaded Kuait?..there was a western mobilization quicker than anything…but he cant do it on this occasion…even tho the ~Georgia president is practicley begging him to get involved as he promised…all Bush can do is ask Russia to chill out…as he knows that they know that there would be absolutly no military action taken from the west at all…it would be suiside as we all know what Iran has in mind dont we…yep…nukes…
Bush need to keep his mouth shut on this one i think…or he could make matters much…much worse…
smiled:D.
0
Wacth this then look up NAU and AMERO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PpMdTmVMpo&feature=related
Bush denies all this and laughs it off but its no joke.
People are dying and politicians are posturing. I hate war, it is one of the most evil things than man can do, and mostly it is caused by politicians who never see the evil that they have unleashed.
I don’t know who, what or how it started but it should stop.
+1
I dont like war , noticed on the news theres a big oil pipeline involved again, has it got anything to do with that will petrol prices be going up again?This is very close to turkey , my honey moon is in turkey, ermmm have to find out where it is aint going if its dangerous,:unsure:
Yes good point, lets not believe the western propaganda… Lets fall hook line and sinker for Russian propaganda instead! :w00t:
South Ossetia isn’t an independent state! Having de-facto independence is very different from true independence. Although declared its own ‘independence’ in the 90s it hasn’t been recognised by the UN or NATO or the EU.
On a personal level I think it is perfectly fair for South Ossetia to aspire to independence. The South Ossetians are in a very similar position to Chechnya. With both regions wanting independence, one is prevented by the Georgians, the other prevented by the Russians. Don’t forget how the Russians have been dealing with Chechen independence for the past two decades. Suddenly the current fighting in South Ossetia, and Georgia pales into insignificance. I also wonder how the Russians would like it if the US was to march into Chechnya in much the same way as they have marched into South Ossetia!
I did think Bush’s comment about the Russians invading a sovereign state were rather ironic but there is a big point to be made about the difference between Georgia and Iraq! And comments that had the US not sidelined the UN so much it would have more power are only half true. The US played lip service to the UN for Iraq, which is rather better than completely ignoring it like the Russians have been with Chechnya.
There are two sides to every argument, and you’ll pretty much only ever get one side from one source. Impartiality is hard too find, for instance the days of BBC impartiality are long gone, its far easier for them to just look at what is happening, listen to what everyone else is saying and report that as opposed to doing the research.
Good points RB800 ;). I guess what we are seeing is Russia reasserting the balance of power in their sphere of influence (Eastern Europe and the Caucasus). Russia has been on the retreat for years now, and Europe and the US have quickly filled the vacuum in eastern europe and the post-soviet states, a process which has drastically upset the original balance of power which contributed to the relative political ‘stability’ of the cold-war era - I feel that this was antagonistic and short sighted - as it was always going to result in a Russian backlash as Russia regained strength and confidence after the immediate chaos and dereliction of the post-soviet era.
A more sensible policy would have been to help Russia maintain it’s position as the strategic and economic centre of gravity in eastern europe and the caucasus - a process of partnership which would have made Russia more amenable to the international communites demands for respect for the political autonomy and rights of the peoples of eastern europe and the caucasus.
There’s a lot of well thought out views here. I find it tough to be impartial about Russia for personal reasons. Russia’s a bully. Let’s leave aside other countries (US in Iraq etc) and atrocities on its own soil, as in Chechnya etc. It’s invaded Georgia’s breakaway regions, but still it’s invaded Georgia and is killing civilians there. It’s used energy as a foreign policy weapon against Ukraine and Belarus. It fermented riots in Tallinn and attacked the Estonian government web services after a Soviet statue was moved. It’s constantly picked on the Latvians about the Russian minority (they’re actually a majority in Riga thanks to the occupation). Russia has murdered at least one of its citizens abroad, here in the UK. These countries have legitmately elected leaders and governments and if they want, or have achieved EU and NATO membership then it’s up to them and Russia has no say in it. That’s especially true after they suffered under the Soviets (the Baltics had 10s of 1000s deported in a single day). What happens if we don’t stand up to Russia, Lithuania gets invaded so Russia can link up with Kaliningrad and more people die? Russia moves into eastern Ukraine?