The human kind is known to greater acts of depravity…
I’m not so much against personal vengeance in these cases, but I am 100% against it issued and committed by a central state as a detterent.
@Jaime - maybe he did - but there is a much more complex set of factors behind ‘getting a kick’ psychologically. If we are to minimise possible future similar tragedies we need to understand what drives a 15 year old to brutally kill his own mother - never going to understand that in a jail.
@Schmidt - Yes a functional until you get it wrong! But also see the point I make to Jaime…
would you have the same view if the person killed your own mother in the same way… predetermined? and your money goes to keeping him alive in jail? end him… now
no amount of debate however, will ever get to the bottom of how a 14 yr old could that do is own mother
it was bad enough hitting her with hammer, but to burn the evidence, then calmly sit in poloce station telling lies is not comprehensible to sane people
If someone killed my mother, I would not want the state to execute him. If I could by my own hand, fine… But then I would accept any jail penalty on myself!
But then again there’s a reason why I also believe the victim should never determine the sentence… the emotional factors skew all rational judgement.
So is there a way this kid can be “fixed” by the correct treatment to one day live what most see as a normal life & if so would you be happy for him to date a family member?
I don’t think anyone has the answer to that… All I suggested was finding the true underlying cause for this crime to prevent it from happening in the future…
Got a better idea - find the biggest, sharpest, muddiest hill and give him a sports bike to go down on it with the throttle pinned on full… if he survives I think he deserves it
I dont think the news stroy is a great basis for this debate but…
My vews…
I kinda understand the whole thing about how people have been effected mentaly by past experiences and that can effect their actions. I also understand why some people say we should fix these problems rather than take a life for a life… However… If someone came along and killed one of your loved ones what would you want to do to them? Sure as hell know id want to kill the f’cker.
The only thing i think about when it comes to the whole death penalty debate is that you would have to be 100% sure that the person on trial commited murder.
As for how the country has become soft, i completely agree with it. It seems these days its better to be the criminal. Prisons are too soft so are not a detterant, i mean i saw in one how they built a juice bar and some fancy gym in a youth prison… what sort of a detterant is that? and what a waste of our money.
The fact you cant hit your kid without getting in trouble if they report you… Yes you shouldnt be able to beat them black and blue but it never hurt me getting a smack from my mum growing up. You can see the difference between a beating and a little smack to punish a child. Kids these days have no respect as they are let to get away with things.
Oh and a good one i always like to bring up in this case… In the forces when deployed on ops you used to get 20min a week phone calls… well that changed to bring it inline with the 30 minutes people get in prison… i mean wtf, not only was it bad enough you used to get less but bringing it inline with prisons, surely it should be better than what you get in prison… Which brings me back to the point of how its easier to be in prison.
This country is soft, needs to toughen up, get harsher but still fair when it comes to punishment and yes i agree with the death penalty but it has to be beyond doubt the person is guilty. I also think you should have to do hard labour in prison and the money raised from it put into the system to help with running costs of the prison.
And before anyone says it, no they shouldnt bring back national service… yes it may sort some people out but it would have an adverse effect on the forces and im sure as hell know i wouldnt want to work along the side of the scumbags we have aloud people to become.
In some ways I agree but generally I do not - You see I cannot agree for the simple reason that when I was thirteen my mum tried to slap me for something (I believe it was forgetting to do homework and causing us to be late for something). She had never really slapped me more than 5-6 times but the memory of those slaps prompted me to grab her wrist and say to her: “You try to do that again and I will break your f*cking arm off”
Now many would say that I would have always had that reaction but I do think that it was an ‘enough’ moment - this does not deserve a slap so f*ck it, you try to hit me, I’ll hit back
The same went with teachers, if anyone tried to smack, they got a punch or a chair thrown at them (though this was very very rare)…
So I generally do believe that if you want to slap your kids, fine… but when they beat the living sh*t out of you, don’t come crying to me…
As for the whole military thing - yeah I don’t agree with it full stop so don’t see it as a good example for society. I learnt my positive traits of caring for one another and working as a team from squatting in schools and living in them as hippy communes - the good old school protests, god I miss them
Okay maybe i should of been clearer, or more detailed in the whole smacking your kids… Ofcourse i dont think you should smack you kid for everything and anything. Simple things like not doing homework you should just take away privaledges… smacking your kid should be for things like thieving… and no im not going to come up with a list of everything you should and shouldnt smack your kids for
Again, what the news tells you and what reality is are not always the same.
In English law we have something called “reasonable chastisement”.
This gives a defence to prosecution for assault to parents that hit their children.
This does not extend to Assault Occasioning Actual Bodily Harm, which would be the beating them black and blue.
It is unfortunate that our media tells us such lies and never really informs us of the truth. I think if you guys knew the reality a bit more than you wouldn’t be half as concerned as you are.
Here is what the CPS say:
Section 58 Children Act 2004 removes the availability of the reasonable chastisement defence for parents or adults acting in loco parentis where the accused is charged with wounding, causing grievous bodily harm, assault occasioning actual bodily harm or cruelty to persons less than 16 years of age. However, the reasonable chastisement defence remains available for parents and adults acting in loco parentis charged with common assault under section 39 Criminal Justice Act 1988.
