What is everyone voting for the AV voting sytsem change?
i was for it, now im against it! but too be honest i am not sure i understand all pros and cons!
unfortunately i am not bothered.
i know i should be but i can not get excited about it at all.
now a referendum on been in the eu etc, now that i would bother about.
If you’re pro-democracy (and that’s full democracy) then it’s surely a step in the right direction…
People are undoubtedly going to bang on about smaller parties getting into power who may not be responsible/what they like. Yes, it may help people like BNP etc win seats, but it may also open the door for parties such as the Green Party or UKIP to step up to the plate…
Moreover, even if the BNP (or similar right wing fascist party) do happen to get into power, if the people want it, how can it be wrong?
If one is pro democracy than surely one cannot complain at the people getting what the people want???
Just my $0.02
Something about an anti-virus?
I would have voted yes for it a few years ago, but now I will be voting No, just to spite Nick Clegg the lying piece of crap.
Have less votes biatch! 
Very much pro, I will be voting yes.
We need voting reform in this country and to start giving more accountability to MPs. The ‘No to AV’ argument that it allows smaller extremist parties more power is absolute rubbish, point and case, the BNP are against it.
Ultimately it is not a perfect system by a long stretch, PR is where we should ultimately be but given that it’s taken this long to get AV, PR may be a while away yet…
Although I appreciate the animosity towards Clegg & Co, voting No will only serve to shoot you in the foot. You are best off voting for what you agree with then the pay back comes at the next General Election - AKA Lib Dem/Tory destruction.
AV sounds great in theory but as Netanyahu says “I believe you are thinking of reforming your voting system. Be careful of proportional representation. I give you that as a free tip.” and then there’s Australia where the balance of power is held by a couple of independents who are fruit cakes apparently. Great in theory but doesn’t work in practice IMHO.
At least with FPP you generally get a definitive result and if it wasn’t for UKIP there would probably have been one this time.
The constitution has been butchered enough already in the last 15 years and can’t think this would be of any benefit for when difficult choices have to be made.
Got to be NO for me.
No, voting in a general election on a single issue that will be 4 years old by the time of the General Election is too late and demonstrates nothing, there could be hundreds of reasons to vote against both parties by the time the General Election arrives.
MPs need to understand that there are consequences for their actions. Nick Clegg has blatantly lied to the electorate in the most bold faced way possible, standing there with a piece of paper saying…I pledge…and when confronted with power throwing that pledge in the bin.
What better way to illustrate the power of the electorate then to take what the Lib Dems have advocated for decades and throw it in the bin.
There are consequences for lies Mr Clegg and costing your party its first real chance of electoral reform for nearly 90 years is the price you should pay.
ref: Desmo’s point…
As he says, there’s no point not voting for reform (or voting against reform, as the case may be…) to get our own back at the Lib Dems. I myself was pro-lib dem prior the the election and now post-coalition I am distressed over the way they have - as you have already stated - lied to our faces…
However, FPP or AV, or any other voting system, the general consensus agrees with you and me, and thus the Lib Dems will indeed get slammed any way possible… Most people - now - would rank parties such as the Greens higher than the Lib Dems, and so the lib dems would get - effectively - “knocked out” after the first round of voting and not get the seat anyway - the same consequence as FPP.
I also agree that, in most cases, the referendum is more important than the G.E. on the issue, as referenda are usually more specific and pertinent. Yet I feel to revolutionise (or not…) the voting system purely to “send a message” to a particular party… is kind of beside the general point of a referendum to “improve” democracy in the country.
ANYWAY sorry for the really long essay where I probably sound like a proper dick-ed… I’m studying politics and I should be revising… I guess this is the closest I will get to that! 
Thing is CHiPs I am 38 years old, I remember Thatcher, I remember the sheer hatred for the Conservative Party being expressed in 1997, it goes FAR beyond the ire that is turned to the Lib Dems today.
Yet who is in power today? The Conservatives are.
It is no good giving the Lib Dems the thing they crave the most, on the proviso that they will get trounced at the General election, just to see them gain in the long term from their deceit and the reforms they want.
In 15 years time the Lib Dems will have more MPs in Parliament because of AV. They know it, which is why they sold us out to get it.
I say, don’t give it to them.
You know between the two of us we could probably have some really boring conversations…
And they still managed to get in now… regardless of the voting system… All parties have their rise and falls. Indeed the Lib Dem’s fall, subsequently followed by it’s rise, will be eased by the AV system. In many years down the line they will certainly have more seats in parliament yet - if they are the best candidates, then “wtf” is wrong with that? :hehe:
Like at the moment, yes the conservatives (with a Lib-Dem on the side here and there) are in power, which is probably (and I say probably very, VERY, carefully, because I have studied “Thatcherism” in detail) what the country needed. Let’s face it - the country has only been heading downhill for years and finally someone is coming in with concise and pragmatic, as well as operational plans to get the country back on it’s feet. NOW would it be wrong to not put these people into government due to one woman ages ago?
All parties have had their “dark ages” - (or the “golden times” - as many blue blooded Tories would say with a certain nostalgia believe, swig their whisky, rock back on their chair and read the independent to) and indeed this is one for the Lib Dems. But who’s to know - in many many years to come they might actually be what this country needs, and they might need an AV system to get into power, or any party whose may be considered an “outsider” for that matter…
Yes yes we may have a very boring conversation, and I will buy you a pint sometime and we can discuss it. It’s just nice sometimes to have some intelligent conversation - rather than what I get off my bigoted, daily mail reading father who believes whatever he hears from any commentator on the Andrew Marr show who he seems to like…
I’ve always been in favour of proportional representation, basically because it seems the fairer option. For example, in Sheffield where I grew up, the way the constituencies were divided meant that each person’s vote did not have equal power. One constituency consisited of 25 % of the population, whereas another represented only 10% of the population, meaning that candidates could be elected with a minority vote.
I have always been very much in favour of changing the current voting system to PR.
However, am not sure how AV differs from PR? Have not had time to go into it, but any info welcome.
I am not quite sure of this idea of “just what the country needed?”
Under Labour, crime had gone down, schools had improved, hospitals had improved, the rich had become far wealthier.
Just what is it that the Conservatives are going to do better?
Apart from a GLOBAL economic problem and a pointless war the Labour Party were actually pretty good for the vast majority of people. They brought in the Human Rights Act, they brought in the Minimum Wage, they brought in working tax credits, they devolved power to the Scottish and to the Welsh (who now reap the benefit of that) Created a Mayor and a City wide Government for London, something Thatcher took out btw…jeez Brokered Peace between the UK and Ireland and brought about disarmament of the IRA after, what many consider, to be 80 years of open conflict.
They were piss poor on civil liberties and that is fine, I agree, they didn’t really help the middle classes that much either, too many taxes, they created too many laws.
And it is not because of one woman ages ago CHiPs it is because fundamentally the policies of the Conservative Party do not work for the VAST majority of the people. Schools went downhill under the Conservatives, the Health System almost collapsed, there were riots on the street, we sold everything WE owned as citizens of this nation to a select few individuals who now make a massive profit at our expense.
You know David Cameron has created over 115 Peers in the House of Lords since he was elected.
Money and Jobs for the boys…what can you expect from a Tory.
Back on this topic…we as a country have an opportunity, to make a Politician pay for his lies. Not just a general idea that we are unhappy, but a distinct, clear message…you lied, you don’t get what you want.
Simples.
Okay as you’ve done, we need to bring this back to the OP - we can discuss a Conservative Policy over a Welfare State any time you like - just not tonight I’m way to hammered !
I do think you have a point, it’s not good that they lied. But hey, if you can find me one politician that hasn’t lied please call me on my mobile so I can meet him
Moreover, I don’t think Cleggy - or anyone for that fact - will be losing to much sleep over losing a referendum… I mean, really?
I’m way too tired and we’re way too opinionated
I agree with many of your points here and as a Lib Dem voter in the last election feel completely betrayed by Clegg & Co. However, I stand by the principle that ultimately AV is a good thing for the country; it’s not letting Clegg get one over on us, it’s something we will all benefit from. A revenge vote really does nothing but, as I said before, shoot yourself in the foot. I can only presume given your previous comments, and forgive me if I have assumed incorrectly, that as a Labour supporter you believe, either way, Labour will more or less win the next election due to the unpopularity of the coalition therefore why vote for a system which could jeopardise Labour seats and also at the same time get revenge on the Lib Dems. This is a quite bigoted train of thought and doesn’t really promote the idea of increased democracy and fairness in the country, two of the main underpinning principles in Labour policy.
Either way if AV goes through it will hopefully put a massive strain on the coalition; If the No camp win then Lib Dem MPs will become finally disillusioned with the coalition and Nick Clegg for his failures and lead the backbenchers to withdraw support thus leading to the Coalition falling apart. If the Yes camp win, then not only do we get AV, but we get Tory backbenchers in the same position as above.
As for your final point, one of the key principles of AV is making MPs more accountable for their actions; there is less reliance on safe seats and therefore people will be encouraged to vote and make their MPs aware of their feelings. Do you not feel it would be more sensible to bide you time in a sense, get AV in then punish them with their own tools?
ppls…ppls…ppls…
will you just vote UKIP and get this country back on track please?
ohh and chips…Nigel Farage hasn’t lied to anyone bud…he’s the best man for the PM job;)
smiled.
Never said he did!!! Did I???
Met the man back in January, and I completely agree with you Shane…
For those of you unfamiliar with Farage, this may help you understand him:
good vid there chipsie!!
smiled.