Track bike number issue!

I know im prob gonna get a lot of questioning replies back from this but hopefully people like Jay, Foxy and B can vouch that i am genuine!!! Anyway…

… just under 2 years ago i bought a gsxr track bike. I have owned and run the bike fine ever since. I am now looking to sell the bike on as i can no longer afford to do track days. I had a guy come and look at the bike on the weekend and he was going to buy it until he noticed the engine and frame numbers had been removed I have been very stupid and did not even think of checking these out when i bought the bike as there was no reg document and at the end of the day it was a track bike. The guy i got it from seemed really genuine. Got it from his home address and he gave me a written receipt. My concern is that im know going to have a lot of trouble selling the bike on. Has anyone heard of or been involved with checks being done on bikes at track days?

How much?

It does bother some people and yet others it doesnt bother them at all…

If i were looking at it id be looking for other signs that it had been nicked i.e things like the hole in the headstock where the steering lock pin goes in to see if its been made oval (by forcing the steering lock)

To be honest there arent many reasons why an Engine or Frame number should be removed, even if the bike was a Cat B, C or D then there is no reason to remove it, if it were a Cat A then normally the headstock should really be cut off and the bike scrapped (to be fair if it were a Cat A then there wouldnt be much left of it anyhow!)

All you can do is maybe stamp the headstock and the engine yourself to read ‘track only’.

I have heard that even if the numbers are defaced that they can still be read via Xray if they need to be?!

My old trackbike never used to have an engine number but it did have a frame number which was traceable, and in the year that i had it no-one ever bothered me about it and to be honest it never really bothered me as i know the guy i got it from

If they are buying it to race then they wont be allowed to use it if it doesnt have numbers !

It was going for £1700. Only needs a set of tyres to get it back on track. Any decent offers??!

TBH, thats too much money for me to spend on my first track bike. was looking around the £7-800 mark.

but cheers mate.

10ner

smiled

If you are going to enter the bike for racing in Bemsee, you have to have frame and engine numbers. they can be checked to make sure that they are legit. No engine or frame number, no run. Many clubs are the same way, the police seem tio realise that stolen bikes arrive at a race track.

Hey Chuffster i asked the same thing a while back apparentlyas long as the numbers havent been tampered with you dont have to have a frame number i.e… if its a new frame but if its in any way tampered with or looks suspect then it isnt allowed. obviously bikes get bent etc so sometimes people replace the frame and never have the number stamped in it…

No reason for an engine number to be taken off though…

spearsy did you have a look at the hole for the pin for the ignition lock? was it deformed?

In Bemsee, they require a valid frame and engine number, other clubs may be different. For track day use it would be fine, track day companies don’t really care as long as you are paying them.

I asked that at Bemsee though

Thanks for the replies guys.

When i got the bike there was no ignition barrel. The start up has been wired into the kill switch. Which thinkin about it prob means it may have been stolen before hand?

i wouldnt assume anything…

nothing you can do about it now but be honest and tell potential buyers / in the advert that it has no numbers.

I’m just wondering what you’re going to tell Police if you get nicked for handling stolen goods ?

Basically, lets say you sell this and somewhere down the line your buyer or the person that buys it from them etc etc etc names you as having sold it at one stage. If it is investigated properly you’ll be paying a visit to a Police Station, driven there in style in a pair of bracelets.

I’m going to play Devils Advocate here mate and throw a few questions that could come your way.

You’d be asked - when you told them that you bought it in good faith - did you not think it was odd that there was no documents ?

Did you not check the bike over when you bought it and not see that there were no Engine / Frame Number - after all, you were going to use this bike to race on a track and surely you or a friend would give the bike a very good checking over ?

Did you not think it odd that there was no ignition barrel and it was wired into the kill switch ?

I don’t know you mate but if I was to have on my ‘work head’ and someone started to come out with stuff like that I’d either think they were very guilty or very naive.

Hopefully you’ve still got the reciept and the address of the bloke you bought it from - what’ll happen though if that person (in name) doesn’t exist and anyone at that address (who may have lived there for years) claims never to have sold you any bike ?

I’m not trying to scare you mate but you could be leaving yourself wide open if you try and sell this on with a very strong suspicion it is a nicked bike.

So your options are -

1/ Keep the bike and carry on using it as a track bike. Risk getting stopped (maybe someone who checks the bike at a track day may notice it and bubble you up to police) with it in your possession - Load of grief for you, the bike getting seized and you possibly (more than likely) getting nicked and getting all those dodgy questions thrown at you by coppers who probably won’t believe a word you say.

2/ Advertise the bike for sale and state on the advert or explain to potential buyers - no docs, no ignition barrel - wired to kill switch, no engine / frame numbers … expect then that Police will be informed as most bikers if they think someone is selling a stolen bike would probably grass them up to the old bill - High potential of getting nicked.

if that doesn’t happen

3/ Sell the bike and get named by the buyer if they get stopped or checked as having sold them a nicked bike - the bike would get siezed, the new buyer would lose any money they gave you as well as the bike - High potential of you getting nicked.

4/ Approach Police now and explain fully whats happened and what you’ve discovered along with giving them the details of the person you bought the bike from. If the bike is nicked then you will lose the bike and not get any money back. Plus point, you won’t get nicked.

I’ve got no doubts that you have acted in good faith mate, after all you wouldn’t have posted this up on the forum knowing that there are nasty coppers on here. But I just hope you realise and weigh up all the options and potential for grief that you may leave yourself open to in whatever you decide to do.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet … that bike may have been someones pride and joy and lifted from outside their house … how would you feel if you had your bike stolen and then discovered a conversation like this about your bike 2 years later … I know what I’d want to do !

This post isn’t a pop mate, just letting you be aware of the possible potential for your actions, what you decide to do is up to and down to yourself.

Appreciate the advice Trojan! Seems either way you’ve put im screwed!! Been looking at the e mails i sent to the guy i got it from and he originally told me it was a stolen recovered bike. If the bike was stolen and recovered, but because the numbers had been removed could not be traced to the original owner, what would normally happen to that bike. Is it possible they can be sold on somewhere? Possibly by insurance companies?

Well the insurance company would probably own it, but as no one can trace the owner no one will know which insurance company owns it, therefore if they did find it they could get sh1tty and say they want it back which if they have paid for it have every legal right to… although they will probably say give us some money for it…

when an insurance company sells an item which may not be traceable to the original owners, or an asset is purchased from an auction, etc, generally there will still be some documentation that will flow from the purchase, and if i am not mistaken i believe the vehicle would be re-registered.

you may want to try and get hold of the person you purchased the bike from to see if he has this documentation> and then make a decision as to where to go to from there…

i would agree with Trojan tho - if you believe that the bike is stolen - then report it to the police!

OK if it were me…

I’d do exactly as i did when i sold mine (although mine did have a frame number - which i never did check out but i knew the guy off of a forum that i bought it from who is a long standing member)

Advertise it on eBay as a track bike with no V5, you dont have to say in your advert about the no ignition barrell & wired to the switchgear as that is a very popular mod to do (saves faffing around with a key) mine had it done and has full V5 and checked out on HPI so dont worry about that!

Ive looked on eBay at many bikes when i was in the hunt for a new track / race bike and when i emailed them asking ‘does it have frame / engine numbers’ 9 times out of 10 the answer was ‘no numbers!’

If there were no signs of theft on it i.e. as i said in an earlier post about the headstock part of the frame not elongated where the ignition barrel locking pin goes in (you still havent said if you have checked that out or not?!), you can also check things like if there is a key does it fit the petrol cap and if it has an ignition barrell does it fit both locks?

Personally many of my friends and people i know dont have numbers on thier bikes and they have never ever had them checked out…