Toby, it’s not the officers who are evil but the politics behind it. You know as well as I do that there’s no way to stop suicide bombers, look at the middle east, they have very tough policies in place now and the bombers still get through. Our best approach is to retain the society we have, that’s our best defence and proof to the would-be terrorists, if that’s what theye really are, that they will not win.
The govt are usig terrorism as an excuse to implement far more controls than are needed or necessary. We’ve had these things in the past, you’re right, but they didn’t do any good then either. Look at how they have been used so far, they ejected a heckler from the own party conference ! How much of an abuse was that and Bliar blamed it on part time hired hands . . . ****** . . . the party security was controlled by the party as you probably know, they manage it like a stage show.
I take your point that the world is changing but we don’t need knee jerk reactions to it, we need measured, sensible responses from politicians who are considering the bigger picture, not always keeping an eye on how they can protect their trough, prevent dissent and manage their opponents, who are now not another political party but the people they themselves aree claiming to represent.
So what’s this got to do with being stopped and searched by the police…
And why should I understand the paranoia that some people have about cameras. Tell you the truth, security cameras have helped me to recover stolen property in the past… its funny how everyone who has this paranoia about being watched never mentions the benefits they have. And as a ludicrously daft exmaple of hteir benefits, you’ve probably wwatched THOUSANDS of hours of TV that is made possible cos of those cameras… pratfalls, criminals at work, justice being done… this whole “CAMERAS ARE EVIL, WE’RE BEING WATCHED” argument is always so pointlessly one-sided its not really worth having.
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… but honestly, I’d say you’re lucky to have had such a sheltered safe life, something which you owe to the efforts of those “invasive officers” who were hell bent on ruining your Saturday afternoon at the footie… /
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But that’s not true. The reason I’ve not been a victim of bombing is because I’ve not been a victim of bombing.
It is not correlated to police efforts to protect me. This is because: (a) there has NOT a constant risk of me dying from a bomb attack throughout my life so I haven’t needed protection (b) I don’t know the statistics, but I think it would be fair to say that if I was able to find a ranking of likely causes of death then being the victim of a bomb attack would be so far down the list that it was insignificant.
I’m sorry you were searched. Terrorists do not fall into any particular ethnic group or dress in a particular way. Terrorists are out there now planning their next attack and are conducting reconnaissance all the time. A major public event, such as a football match would be an excellent target. It’s a sad relflection of the times that we live that it is felt necessary to deprive people of their liberty for a short period whilst a search is carried out, and intrude into their privacy in this way.
Sections 43 & 44 of the Terrorism Act have already stopped attacks and will probably continue to do so all they while the legislation is enacted.
You could always lobby your MP for a repeal of the Terrorism Act
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… but honestly, I’d say you’re lucky to have had such a sheltered safe life, something which you owe to the efforts of those “invasive officers” who were hell bent on ruining your Saturday afternoon at the footie… /
We’ve reached the “I’ve never needed the police to protect me, so we may as well disband the police altogether” stage of this kind of discussion. Time for me to go. Cos I can’t even beng to reason with that kind of “logic”
Sorry…I missed the part where I said CCTV is evil…I actually used the fact that we are one of the most watched nations in the world as further proof of how our government are intruding into lives on a daily basis. There are plenty of our countries in the world who face the same threats and greater than we do and yet do not treat their citizens in the same way.
No. I’m not saying that we don’t need the police. I value them and am glad to see them.
I AM saying that there is a prevailing movement to heighten people’s fear of terrorist acts, when in fact they are probably more likely to come to harm because of, say, a robbery or a badly driven motor vehicle.
when i was serving n Northan Ireland i was on a patrol down a normal street…it was about 12 in the afternoon and my platoon serg thought it abit weird as he spotted something…all the windows were open all the way down the street…
he stopped us in our tracks and pointed out key factors in the road that led him to believe there was a car bomb waiting for an army patrol…open windows,clearly spaced out cars…limited civi’s walking about…in fact…it looked completely normal to the average joe and even myself…so we called in bomb disposal,and for sure…there was a ford fiesta with a few pounds of C4 just aching to go off…
they detonated it with a controlled explosion and it would have ripped us to pieces…
i was 18 years old then…and it taught me a valuable lesson…
i stopped and searched as many people as i could after that…as it was my life on the line and this was for real…no movie…no scripted material …no special effects…this was the most frightening time in my life…and i still get weird feelings about it too this day when it passes threw my mind…
maybe if there was CCTV or ID cards…or more regular stop and searches then this sorta thing wouldn’t of come about…but it was a fair few years ago…and CCTV wasn’t as rife as it is today…
so if a police officer pulls me over…or stops me in the street…i will turn out my pockets and give them all the information they need…as its doing my part in to combating this terror threat to my country…
i reckon it was harder trying to spot the IRA in them days…they looked just like us…spoke like us…and even wore our uniform…lol…talk about mind phuck!!!..lolol
I’ve been stopped and searched quite a few times over the years and never had any issues with it. Just coppers doing their job.
Last time I was pulled over near Peckham at 2am one morning, last May. Stone cold sober and driving sensibly; after answering some questions about what I was up to, I asked why the copper tugged me, he said he was just making some checks and I let it go at that. No harm done and I put it down to them looking for someone or something.
Only time I could have got into trouble was a promotion match at the old Wembley between Crystal Palace and Leicester City. Line of police blocking the way to the match pulling random people for a search. Had a quarter of smelly burning stuff in my pocket, which the officer looked at then shoved back in my pocket. Guess he was looking for trouble makers not stone heads. I feel prompted to add that I have not done any drugs for over 8 years now - just in case Big Brother is taking notes.
Guess what I am saying fella, is don’t worry about it. You seem to have nothing to hide and in a way it makes me feel comfortable to think that there is some pro-active policing going on. Much better than waiting for an incident.
Generally, we don’t trust our politicians, but we do trust the police (I said “generally”).
So I trust a policeman to search me if he feels the need to and, if he’s courteous, I’ll respect him as he does his job. If we get to the stage where we feel we can’t trust the police, we’re in big trouble. It may be inconvenient, but I’d rather be searched by an officer, than blown up by someone who hates my society.
I don’t trust the politicians. Mostly, they seem to be scheming and self-serving. They need to make sure that the police stay on the straight and narrow, even if they don’t themselves. They need to create a regulatory framework that we trust.
I wonder if he was being observed as to whether the requirement was being enforced or maybe he has a quota of people to check set by the top brass somewhere? I doubt that his intention was to **** you off…after all, how long did it take!? Were you really violated? The guy was clearly just doing his job. Im with the ‘what does a terrorist look like’ angle - look at the Bishopsgate Bomber - come to think of it, look at any criminal - it’s impossible to say whether someone is guilty of a crime - or potential to commit crime on looks alone It’s like saying the farce of Phrenology is more useful than Criminal Profiling.
Unfortunately being checked is the price you pay for living in a Democracy. It’s not a perfect situation, but then we are human…
The problem arises when those with the power act Ultra Vires (outside of their power ambit) - now to change that we might all need to start a campaign to change the Terrorism Act…
got to agree big brother is here and its not at all nice…and it is open to abuse and will be and is being…sorry but the police are as trustworthy as anyone else on this planet, there are some good some bad some will do it right some wont…the laws in this country dont help us and they dont help the police to arrest and convict the real criminals…and the jails are full of mothers who dont send their kids to school, speeding motorists, people who wont or cant pay their council tax, people who wont pay their SORN fines,:Whistling: people who avoid paying parking fines, If we are a more civilized people why do we constantly need new laws, why do we need ever increasing intrusion into our private lives, why are we all hypocrites…why are we…what is man…who the kin hell knows what woman is…ooh the list goes on…
Truth is we are no longer free…and as toby will say its all our own fault, we voted the idiots into power and by the far the worst are those in local government.
Waxy - if it is any consolation I too was stopped and searched under the Prevention of Terrorism Act on my way to the annual firework display at Cowes IOW.
Two rather embarassed members of the Hampshire Constabulary were stopping and searching people in the crowd at random. I am in my early fifties and very english looking and I am sure that is why I and the other people were stopped. It was a couple of days after a Home Office minister had denied the police were picking on Muslims for stop and search. What better way to ensure that the numbers support that assertion than to stop and search a couple of hundred people on the Isle of Wight!
I can see why you were cheesed off but in my case I just had a good laugh about it. I only wish I had kept the form they gave me as a trophy -it would increase my street cred in the office no end.
Really, surely you don’t mean individuals choosing ‘who they like when they like’
because for some this could just be who they ’ don’t like ’ , and unless there is some reasoned rational behind police actions we end up with inefficient inefective policing .which only increases the potential danger.
Now in this case, i don’t know , there could have been sound reasoning and if so it is ok by me , but make no mistake, if we cease to have members of society who question actions of government bodies, take part in demonstrations, and keep a close eye on legislation and the correct use thereof we ultimately could be in danger of not being allowed to enjoy a relatively free existence, and this could include the right to take part in our football and motorcycling activities.
So don’t stop the boys in blue doing there job but lets be glad that some people are keeping them on there toes and ensuring that is is a good and worthwhile job they are doing…
as an example, i live in east london, its a pretty rough area, the kids walk around with hoods up bandannas round there faces etc, if i was a copper i would deem that odd and i would carry out a stop and a search regardless of race. one of teh reasons the kids are aggressive towards the police is because alot of time they ahev got something to hide,or they are carying say a bit of weed or summit and they know it will get taken off them. infact if i was a copper and i thought someone was suspicious yes i woud stop and search if i thought it was required, i would regard it as my job, be it a group of ‘youths’:w00t: or adults or individuals of both!
take the young lad murded in london last year in leytonstone, he was 14, i live near teh area, it happened virtualy on my mates doorstep, he was set upon by others his own age and above even younger i believe, the youngesters that are up for his murder well known to the police, if you was a youngster that was into that sort of lifestyle shall we say,and you knew you could get stopped reguarly on the street you wouldnt carry a weapon.
i’ve been stopped myself and let go, even with the odd bit of puff on me. it doesnt bother me if i get stopped, i’ve nothing to hide.
in regards to waxy, i think yes it tis a bit odd that he got stopped and searched, but it happens! and is in my eyes no big deal;), just seemed a bit odd that he had a moan on here about it?
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… but honestly, I’d say you’re lucky to have had such a sheltered safe life, something which you owe to the efforts of those “invasive officers” who were hell bent on ruining your Saturday afternoon at the footie… /
Firstly, I’d like to state that I am not a “copper” or former copper etc… My background is ex British Forces, now in the higher bracket of the security industry. Secondly, to say that you have not been a victim of a bombing because there has not been a constant risk of it is just F***ing stupid!!! Never mind the recent years since 9/11 etc… What about the 30 years before that where the UK and it’s security forces were under constant threat? I can only take it that you are too young to remember the fear felt by the nation every time a bomb went off in a shopping mall or hotel, or too naive to realize that the reason it didn’t happen more often was down to a remarkable effort put forward by the security forces of this country! Not to mention the sacrifice of many British lives for the chance of us living in the society we do today! I spent two and a half years in Northern Ireland, much of it spent in Belfast in civilian clothing. Because of my job, I was privy to daily reports of what was going on in the province. We are talking about massive weapons finds, people being tortured, murdered, kneecapped etc… I finished those two and a half years of service three years ago!!! So, we are not talking about ten or twenty years ago, we are talking about extremely recent history! It is still happening, it is still being planned! I still deal with the threat now, in my current job. Not just from the IRA, UDA or whoever else wants a pop at me and my clients, but from any crazy nut job who has an axe to grind and thinks the best way to do it is through terrorism! It’s a very scary world if you find time to open your eyes! And so, all I ask is that if anybody does get asked to take part in a body search, or gets asked to turn out their pockets, give a thought to those people who are the unsung heroes that allow us to live such blinkered lives! Thankyou, rant over… I’m now going out on the bike to clear my head:(
I am glad we have cctvs all over the place now…we need more !! 2 yrs ago, we went to southend for a drive and play on arcades…now we are sitting in the porsche, my other halfs pride and joy, apart from his bike…anyway, we were just having a chat in the car before getting out to play some games, all of a sudden some lad walked OVER the car !! the shithead, out of his nut on drugs and drink, showing off in front of about 15 boys and girls, went from the back of the car over and down the front…with us in it !!!
Ol man jumps out, goes over and grabs shithead, whos mates all then crowd round, trying to shove my ol man out the way, ive gone to get out of the car to grab some little cow all of about 15 who was just about to throw a bottle at his head, when i remembered to get the keys out the ignition first, just in time cos one of em clocked that they were still in there…meanwhile my other half is being pushed back with all these kids around and some pulled out knives…im shouting like a bluddy banshee, and all of a sudden the police arrive, kids all run in all directions, with ol bill running after them…now, no one helped us that was in the street, either through fear or they are just not interested if someone gets stabbed…so yeh, im glad they could see what these shitheads were doing…
We ended up having to go to the police stn to make statements, meanwhile all these kids turned up shouting the odds outside as well …with the police having to go and sort them out for making too much noise, swearing etc…we were bothered about the car again !!
Needless to say the one that jumped on our car…got nothing but a fine and slapped wrist, which meant he could carry on getting pi$$ed and causing trouble for more people…
How much of an abuse was that and Bliar blamed it on part time hired hands . . . ****** . . . the party security was controlled by the party as you probably know, they manage it like a stage show.
It’s like saying the farce of Phrenology is more useful than Criminal Profiling.
If we are a more civilized people why do we constantly need new laws, why do we need ever increasing intrusion into our private lives, why are we all hypocrites…why are we…what is man…who the kin hell knows what woman is…ooh the list goes on…