Moving biting point when clutch hot

Hi all,

TDM has been struggling since May with the clutch. If the cable is adjusted when cold to spec (10mm free play at end), then by the time I get to East Smithfield the biting point will be at the bar, and then it will go beyond this and creep forward increasingly fast until I have to be on both brakes holding throttle open to stop cut out which happens eventually anyway.

To stop myself from dying, I adjust the cable as I ride to mitigate some of these effects, but it is not possible for me to get to my office without clutch at full adjustment and even then the biting point is still back to the bar

It makes for an involved ride, dangerous probably, and best case scenario I am going to crash into a car while filtering because without playing with the biting point real time you have no idea where the biting point is going to be if it is even still there.

The cable adjustment is not moving on its own or with vibration causing this hallucination, it is certainly the biting point, and when it moves you can tell from a stand still because the lever goes all floppy with no resistance at all with excessive travel, but this is not a cable issue because you can see the cable at the gearbox is moving 1:1 with the lever, just the gearbox internals are providing no resistance.

This isn’t for the want of trying. I took it to my garage straight away when it happened and they said “yes we know what this is, you need a new clutch”. I was dubious at this because I would have expected the biting point to move further towards the extended not retracted end of the lever. I had no ideas myself and I couldn’t really find anyone except BMW owners complaining about this on the internet.

£600 later (this local independant garage is not cheap at all, but I use them because they usually do an okay job - with one serious brake incident a few years ago but let’s not get into that now) my bike was returned to me promising fixed. The very first journey it was obvious it was no different.

I wanted to trial getting the train to work anyway over summer as part of a larger plan to reduce stress so I rode to Ebbsfleet for a month and didn’t really suffer from the biting point issue because there was very little in the way of clutch work. I then rode my gsx1400 the following month to work because summer. September, back to school road chaos I decided to ride the TDM into work again. I’d forgotten how dangerous it was and I was genuinely shocked at myself for ever thinking this was acceptable to ride so I called up the garage as soon as I got to work and explained the problem. Again.

The mechanic (who genuinely is quite competent, former Yamaha mechanic and knows his stuff) was convinced the bike was overheating. While I completely understand why he thinks that, I assured him I know this bike better than one really should know something inanimate and it was not overheating. I’m sure fellow commuters understand that once you’ve spent a certain length of time riding a particular bike you just know it like you know yourself. Anyway he was convinced so I let him have a go. Again, I had no better ideas. £500 later he found a lazy thermostat, and it’s true it was slow to open but I was never convinced this was the problem. It did open albeit slowly and remained open, I saw the test, and it would have opened way before I even hit the London traffic on my commute really, and stayed open the whole way. He assured me he’d ridden it and fixed it.

The first time I rode it, it was clear the problem remained. I phoned up again. The garage did not even offer to look at it again for free and they said I probably need a new radiator. It says more about me than them that I actually gave them my bike back. ÂŁ500 later, a new radiator, ultra cold coolant (which is just making the bike run colder than it wants to and is probably not doing the bike or fuel economy many favours), the issue is as bad as it ever was.

The oil turns black pretty quickly each time they take it. The right oil is going in it, and the filter has been changed a few times.

I paid credit card, I could get my bank to charge back, I probably can’t be bothered. I won’t go back to that garage though, from an ethical perspective. Not checking the bike properly and giving it back to someone who’s clearly outlined the issue isn’t okay I don’t think. In the wrong situation, it could end quite badly.

What I do want to know, for my own morbid curiousity is what is wrong with my bike? I don’t know how to rationalise it.

I’m now at a point where I don’t know what to do bike wise either. I could buy a half decent blackbird for 2.5k which I’ve always fancied, buy a new engine to drop into this bike for a few hundred quid and do it myself - I’ve swapped enough car engines that I don’t think this will be too much of a problem provided I can find the time and motivation - or I could just get the train this winter until gsx riding whether returns. It’s probably another £700 a month if not more to get the train to work, and I don’t feel I am able to do anything useful when I am on it. Never a seat, always delayed or cancelled on the way home, and everyone is so grumpy.

Any advice welcomed really. I’d prefer not to hear what a mug I am for throwing good money after bad on a garage that’s suffering a dip in form - in my defence, I’ve been preoccupied with work stress that I just didn’t feel I had the capacity to properly think about the bike

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People a lot more technical than me will no doubt be along soon but could it be the clutch slave cylinder?

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The first thing I’d say is my judgement throughout has been poor so I am not sure my opinion is worth much, but my initial thought is no - only because I would have thought this would be consistent or be getting worse

What I think we’re looking for is something metallic that is warping perhaps, that is exposed to the gearbox temperature changes. What I am finding is that if I get a clear run on e.g. Thames Street after a bad run on E. Smithfield the clutch goes back to behaving almost normally while I am in flowing traffic even if the engine temp doesn’t drop hugely but the gearbox has been able to dissipate heat

*using gearbox here to represent everything from lever to rear wheel, as the problem exists somewhere along that chain, hopefully :slight_smile:

I should also say, I did get a new thrust bearing in round 2 as apparently the previous one had evidentally gotten hot

Having googled along those lines I think you could well be right! I see back on the GS lines this was the recall fixing it. It is certainly worth a go isn’t it

I had a car with an infuriating problem like this. When stone cold the needle valve in the carburettor would stick open and flood the engine. Never a problem when warm.

I renewed the needle valve. Same problem. I changed the fuel filter. Same problem. I had the carburettor completely rebuilt. Same problem. I added extra in-line fuel filters. Same problem. I tried different grades of fuel. Same problem. Nobody could figure it out.

It forced me to become very quick at pulling the air box off, unscrewing the top casing of the carb, and tickling the needle valve back into functioning. I even managed to do that once while disembarking from a ferry.

Eventually I solved the problem by writing the car off on a corner in Wales.

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