Anyone heard about HISS being defeated without cloning the ignition key?
**Please be a bit vague with your answers, no "how to"s **
Unfortunately I had a nasty experience this morning with some bike thieves :crying:. The thieves got through several layers of security (proving that if they want the bike they will get it!). The last line of defence was HISS. I have CCTV evidence of the bike being driven away without a key, however Honda deny that this is possible (unless the key is cloned, but I am confident this has not happened). Has anyone else experienced or heard of this? The bike was only three months old.
Sorry to hear thatā¦ I guess it depends on how HISS interacts with the injection systemā¦ Iād have thought it was pretty goodā¦ but apparently not it seemsā¦
Me too, I thought HISS was supposed to be very good. This is a quote from the Honda site:Totally disabling the engine at the very heart of its ignition system, the system cannot be bypassed by either hot-wiring the ignition or exchanging the ignition switch module, thus effectively deterring joyriders and greatly reducing the possibility of ride-away theft.
I donāt tend to trust anyoneā¦Iād be looking at the dealer in which you bought the bike from. Does the CCTV show a lot of footering about with the ignition/wiring loom? If not, unless there is some real hi tech qizzardy device then it was a cloned key. Dealers can do this pretty easily I thinkā¦?
Yep it seems like you cannot trust anyone :crying:
The CCTV shows that the first thing they did to start up the bike was break the steering lock, which (correct me if wrong!) would mean that they didnāt have a cloned key, because if they had a key then it would unlock the steering lock? The CCTV didnāt seem to show any major tampering with ignition/wiring loom. Which leaves me scratching my head about how they drove off on the bike.
Seems very odd as that would tend to suggest that they bypassed the ECUā¦ Maybe you should send a copy of the CCTV to the Honda Press Office and ask them for their help, they might prefer to help you than see the same footage go to MCN
Honda saying that itās impossible is just silly.
They could say itās very hard, but if theyāre so sure that itās impossible to break, why donāt they put out a Ā£1,000,000 reward for the first person who legimately breaks it? It happens a lot with security stuff and it always gets broken eventually (oyster card, chip cards ā¦).
I have work in the IT industry long enough now to know nothing is āunbreakableā.
But anyway, sad to hear about the theft. Good luck with it!
Sorry about the theft.It will be interesting to see how this develops. Iām not sure Honda could continue to shrug it off with the CCTV evidence (which you are obviously lucky to have). Iām sure MCN and a few other titles would be interested to view the footage.
What this means for all the other thefts of similar bike is that perhaps the owners are trusting HISS too much? The system has been around a while now and itās not inconceivable that someone has taken certain knowledge and knowhow and crudely put something together to override it with mobile technology. I have heard stories about using infrared on a mobile phone to transmit key fob plips, for instance.
Which are just silly urban mythsā¦ most vehicles with key based immobilisers are stolen using the key, the so called āmillennium burglaryā being the most frequently used MO to obtain keysā¦ there are only 2 ways to steal most modern cars and thatās to lift it (physically) or obtain a keyā¦
Bikes with key based immobilisers are much the same other than that theyāre firstly much easier to lift and secondly can be wheeled away in the absence of a disk lock & subsequent to the breaking of the steering lock.
So it will be very interesting to see what Honda have to say given that as reported the bike in question was started without a key being present.
:P:P:P:P:P:P I spoke to Honda today and they want to see a copy of the CCTV, which I will be sending to them asap! I will keep you updated as to the outcome and their explanationā¦
Well, Iām 100% positive this can be done. My bike was stolen at 03:00 this morning and recovered by the police at 08:00 this morning. It had been crashed, so despite the HISS and the Datatool alarm, they must have started it somehow.
The steering lock is broken, but I cannot see any damage to wires or how they got around this. Hopefully the fact that it was recovered means that Honda can investigate and find out how it was done. Iāll let you know how I get on.
Iām now completely paranoid, because it was with Honda for 2 days last week.
Ok, well that was easy. I got off the phone with Honda and they have 0% interest in looking at the bike to identify how their HISS system was defeated. So let that be a warning to anyone who trusts HISS at all.
They say that the only way to beat this is to replace the ECU and the key.
However, my Datatool alarm has worked reliably ever since Iāve had it - I cannot even remove the seat to get my tools out to adjust the preload without it going off. It went off last night.
From the time it went off to when I cleared the front door, no more than 45s could have elapsed. That isnāt enough time to replace the ECU surely?
Anyway, if Honda arenāt interested, neither am I.
Ask on kit car forums, there is a way to defeat HISS as the engines and ECUās are used in kit cars. Andy Bates, he runs a company AB Performance supplying engines - he will know but might not tell you . . . 01449 736633
Very sorry to hear about your bike too. This was the response I got from Honda (even with the CCTV): :unsure:Dear xxxx,
Thank you for contacting Honda UK Motorcycles.
The HISS system operates upon the principle that only a key known to the ECU will disengage the immobiliser. The keys have a code and a fixed memory, and likewise the ECU has a code and memory slots. The registration of the key, places the ECU code in the keyās memory and the keyās code in the ECUās memory. When the ignition is turned on, the ECU asks the key for its code which the ECU confirms by checking that it is in its memory. If not, the immobiliser stays engaged. If it is in its memory then, the ECU asks the key for its own code. If the key answers correctly, the immobiliser disengages. If not correct or missing, the immobiliser stays engaged.
As your motorcycle has been stolen it has now become a matter of which the police should be investigating, for further enquiries into how the vehicle was stolen please report back to the department of stolen vehicles at your local police station. Any further developments made by the police technically will be relayed to the relevant persons within Honda UKās Motorcycles department.
Wongster, I canāt believe that response by Honda UK Motorcycles. What you have there is solid evidence that they donāt give a stuff for their customers. No expression of sympathy at hearing about your bike being stolen, no sign of interest in learning how the system was overidden, itās just pure cop-out, palming you off to the police like that.
I had been considering buying a new Honda, but seeing how Honda UK treats their customers has put paid to that! :w00t:
How did we guess - Honda washed their hands of it by basically reinforcing what their system āshouldā do. They havenāt acknowledged the fact you are without a bike that canāt be started without a key - because it was started without the key - with no further interest is only their first position. Perhaps give MCN a ring? you never know. Itās not gonna bring the bike back but if some well place calls on your behalf forces a bit more out of Honda youād be getting somewhere.
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Not sure the next one is going to be a Hondaā¦