Purleeeese - there have been innumerable petitions. The report is being doctored written right now, when it comes out (with figures) then we can either cheer or jeer. And don’t forget Ken is under the treat of legal action if any vu;nerable road user (pedestrian, cyclist or PTW rider) is injure or killed if the report is delayed because of political ‘expediency’.Watch and wait, but sending snail-mail letters to your MPs and Councillors will help if the feathers fly when the report comes out. The anti-PTW cyclists are doing it, we all should to. Get to it, it doesn’t have to be a smart letter, just to the point, PTWs are part of the solution, not the problem, and “Bikers Are Voters Too”.
I’m with tobi…sorry going to have a rant…
We have to do something
and all I hear is ‘lets do this’ and smack, some individuals come right back and say dont be stupid,
then we get ‘lets do that’ the same people come back and say yet again ‘dont be stupid’
And yet again we get , ‘lets do the other’ and yet again the same people say ‘dont be stupid…its not the way to solve the problem’ and the result is…
NOTHING HAPPENS BECAUSE EVERYONE IS PISSED OFF BY SOME PEOPLE ON HERE.
TO WIN WE HAVE TO BE ORGANISED.
IN MY OPINION;-
1st we have to agree we want bikes in the lanes…
2nd we have to stop making slightly personal slightly annoying comments that simple alienate and ostracise the people we want to actually take soom action.
3rd we have to have constuctive ideas, and facts. No one on here knows the answer but we all want the result. Bickering and running down peoples comments is exactly what leads to tobi getting up in arms ( and rightly so) namely a lack of support and lack of action.
4th We have to listen to all the people on here (there are some very capable people on here)
5th We need to team up so that we are effective…not a one man army or a few individuals shouting and ranting.
So instead of knocking down everyones comments lets be constructive.
Here are some more of my suggestions…lets have ideas.
I suggest we compose a stndard-ish letter and send it over and over again to all of our MP’s…who is good at writing letters…lets actually help people do this…
I still think petitions are worth doing…over and over again. (more to just keep it in the public eye, we can deliver the petition by bike and have it in the news…has that been done, or on a tyre in white paint or something similar)
lets have ideas and lets work together…
purleeese can we stop making ‘hollier than thou’ comments that can only serve to annoy…
MCN already have a petition going and i’ve signed it and so should everyone here.
Ive clicked on the link and its not working.
lets have ideas and lets work together…This is the whole point!!!
I hope any remarks I’ve made in this thread are not perceived as personal attacks; it certainly wasn’t my intention, only to put my point-of-view.
Independent action by groups of forum members serves only to divide the troops, playing into the hands of the Livingstones of this world.
‘Divide and Rule’ is such an apt saying.
Whilst I don’t necessarily agree with all the small print in, let’s say, the MAG approach, I’m confident that their overall thrust and strategy is to my advantage. Therefore, I would rather unite under their banner than that of a small splinter-group, however well-meaning and sensible it is.
Jim, amongst others, is advocating writing letters to our MPs and Councillors.
It’s not that difficult and we can leave the organization of public protests to those who have the experience, skill and legal know-how to do it. Then we should rally round and join in when called upon so to do.
Here’s another apt saying: ‘United we stand, divided we fall’.
Says it all, really.
A few points from the other side of the fence -
- ** Avoid standard letters** - they only need to be answered once then a trained chimpanzee can top and tail this a thousand times to reply to everyone.
Individual letters quoting a combination of facts and personal observations, not just about not being in bus lanes, but about safety and the dangers of vulnerable motorcyclists (including restricted 50cc riders) being treated the same as a someone driving a 35 ton HGV etc. The danger of bikes in the main stream of traffic is just the same as it is for cyclists etc.
-
**Avoid email ** - emails are much easier to send than writing a letter, buying a stamp, posting it etc. Politicians etc know this and will take a proper letter more seriously than an email that could have just been forwarded on with no effort if it is part of a standard letter writing campaign (see1) above).
-
It is important to think about who you write to. Politicians, ministers etc don’t reply to their own letters , people like me do it for them and then the politician sticks their signature on the draft reply. If the letter is not about an area of their responsibility they will not even put their signature on it, or even see it. They will rely on someone like me to reply in our own name. This is because they all get tons of correspondence and they simply have not got time to deal with stuff they are in no position to do anything about directly. Ministers will not sign replies from Joe public unless you are a constituent. They will sign replies to MPs and to influential organisations. When they sign they do read the letter, and will often query the reply and ask for changes if they don’t like it.
So what this means is -
a) Don’t write to a Minister unless they are your MP - they will get a gibbon to reply on their behalf.
b) **If you write to your MP, ask them to raise your points with the Minister concerned. ** That way your letter will be read by the Minister as the MP will send a copy of your letter with their’s. This means it is helpful if your letter to your MP is written in a way that allows the MP to easily forward it. For example, don’t be abusive towards anyone etc.
c) Also ask your MP to raise your points with The Mayor of London, your local council or whatever if your points relate to matters they are responsible for.
d) Make sure you know who is responsible for the bus lane or whatever you are complaining about - TFL is only responsible for the ones of Red Routes and Trunk Roads.
e) Write to the councils concerned - you will get an official replying, but it will help them know of real problems caused by their lines, junction layouts etc. It does not have to be your council as councils have to provide roads etc for everyone and not just their residents.
f) Write to the Mayoral candidates - make sure you are clear you are writing to them in that capacity and not in their capacity as MP or whatever.
g) ** Copy your letters to the press, including local press** if you are referring to the dangers on a local road etc.
h) When writing, **remember that politicians and officials will have only two things on their mind - cost and targets. ** All councils and Departments are subject to Treasury spending and as part of the spending settlement public bodies are placed under a target regime. One of those targets relates to reducing deaths and serious injury on the roads, another relates to environmental impact. Riders rights, etc will count for nothing.
Sorry, that turned out to not be as few points as I originally intended!
Very interesting, informative and useful, thank you!
Im with this! Its not about winning as most marches n protests will prove but about getting our point across and swaying we’re pissed and we’re now making it your problem. This then gets the press writing, and people sstart talking and some times just some times something will get changed. But if we dont do anything, NOTHING will get done!!! Im sure myself and a few others on this forum who work for the MET can start finding out about the official ride out and what we need in regards to police. So, argue all you like about who leads, who writes to who, whats gonna happen and what colour to where with your breakfast but iether stand up and do it or stand aside and let those do it that want to. As I said, its not about winning its about letting people know that we are here and we do count and we are pissed. Besides, I think most of london including the tourists would love to gawk at a few hundred / thousand bikers riding through london being orderly and allowing their photos to be taken. And for those of you on other sites I hope your putting this discussion out. So, when someone decides to actually take charge and make a decision then let me know and me n my lil Hardly Daveeson £10dorrar 125cc will be there. Rant over goodmorning sunshine :D:P:);):w00t:
:hehe:
nice one trash puppy, well said.
anyone remember what happend when they tried to charge bikers to use the dartford tunnel?..
a thousand bikers turned up with £20 notes…and it caused mayhem…
they stopped charging them after that;)
thats what im talking about…:D.
do somthing long enough and they will buckle…trust me…
smiled:D.
Okay chaps, it all sounds good, some really good points raised - how about this… as we have volunteers to make a standard template to write to our MP’s, Councillors, etc - can we get this done in the first instance?
Secondly, can anyone find a list of names & addresses for aforementioned London area MP’s and also for Mr Livingstone and post it up.
Thirdly, I still feel that we as a group should look at a PEACEFUL protest, and we also have volunteers to look into the logistics of it. Getting a ‘fighting fund’ for any payments needing to be made for Police Escorts, etc shouldn’t present a major obstacle - I’m pretty sure most folk will chip in…I certainly will…who’s volunteering to help out?
A combination of tactics is what’s needed to let the powers that be know that as far as bikers are concerned - enough is enough, it’s our lives that they’re playing with.
One other thing that’s been bothering me - surely there are more motorcyclists in London riding in than cyclists now…? Perhaps throwing some stats at Ken & cohorts would help in any standard letter sent?
Lastly, I have raised this question here at London Bikers rather than any other club / forum that I frequent because as far as I am concerned - this place is the voice of London bikers and this is most definitely a London issue.
hi guys and gals, im with this i would chip in, think the letter idea is good and if we dont get any replys we could always let ken know what were planing, and making sure we carry out our operation correctly.
You can get the contact details of any MP from www.parliament.uk or loads of other sites such as http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ or http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/
As for Ken his email is [email protected] or more details here -
http://www.london.gov.uk/gla/contact.jsp
One thing I forgot to mention in my long message above was that it is worth trying to get to see your MP at one of their surgeries. They usually hold these every week on Fridays or over the weekend. They give you the chance to raise issues face to face with them. But please make sure you give a good impression!
I’m with guiliano on this. He (she?) is obviously on the inside track of this stuff and I only touch this base once in a while at local level.
Letters do get more respect than emails (precieved as lazy) and personal visits are worthwhile, even if you come away feeling that you have wasted your time.
Template letters are what Readers Digest send out to tell you that “your in the prize drawer” and we all deal with those the same way. They’re a waste of time, particularly if just a down load.
Petitions. Please don’t bother. Particularly if it’s on on-line one.
So, guiliano, give us the pointers on the sort of format, questions and information the letters should include.
Let’s try this route first. Then there is direct action…
Oldguy.
“The only political power is at the end of a …?”
That sounds like a great idea to me.
I would need to clue myself up on things beforehand though. I can read what has been posted on the net on various sites, but surely there isn’t much point confronting a local MP until the report comes out. I can just imagine the situation where I stand up to ask a question based on hearsay - a waste of time.
Please correct me if I’m wrong about it being a possible waste of time, I haven’t done anything like this before, but will definitely give it a go if it will be worth the time and effort.
Reet, I have emailed an inspector in charge of sorting out public events etc… just to find out some prelimaneries etc… will wait to hear from him or someone else to find out if I am being fired for being part of a radical extremist motorcycle gang or if we get some good advice. Lol will update when i know :hehe:
Don’t we need to raise the profile of the issue somehow first? I doubt any non-bikers have a clue. Write (as advised above) to the relevant people, try to get questions asked in parliament. Worth writing to newspapers at all? If it sounds like a story of political dodginess they might go for it (anyone know why they don’t want bikers in the lanes? Are they worried that drivers will moan or something?). Make the point that even though they know its safer they are making decisions that keep bikers in more danger.
Then try to get some mainstream news coverage so people realise that research shows that accident rates drop for everyone if motorbikes use bus lanes. Makes it politically harder for them to sustain a policy of not allowing bikers in. If letters etc don’t do it - some sort of protest might - but I agree it needs to be one that doesn’t alienate bikers further or irritate the public - you need public sympathy to make them worried. Not sure a slow ride would do that. Parking outside Livingstones office might not be a bad idea - if enough bikers do it it’s newsworthy in its own right. TFL may not manage all the bus lanes, but it’s still a visible action. Needs to be clear its about bikers wanting to be safe.
Anyone work in political PR or anything?
can we start another thread. as I said before there are a lot of people who have some good ideas…lets not knock anyones ideas but go with the best…but lets do something Guiliano has some very good points and we need to take action…or another white wash will occur…
To be fair the new £25 charge on gas guzzlers is just yet another load of crap from this administration…we are being manipulated and forced to give up our freedoms…
Here’s where the list of mp’s is:
For the record my forum name is Giuliano, not Guiliana! 