Another Youngester Stabbed....

Off-topic
41

Yeah your hit the nail on the head there Ratty mate, I said some, I shoulda said all. When I was a kid we had gangs too it was a territorial thing based around which street you lived in coloured with the usual idoitic sectarianism of Scotland. But most disagreements were sorted out with a ‘square go’ and generally both parties shook hands afterwards after they had seemingly resolved their differences via punching and kicking each other. Mass fights were a bit rarer back then. You never thought that by walking into another part of town you would be stabbed or even killed, maybe you expected a chase and a couple of punches etc but nowhere near the levels of violence which appear to be commonplace amongst todays youths.
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me too mate we had our gangs, i was in a graf crew for years!!
if we ever had a disagreement with another lot we just had a ‘straightner’ or we took it to the walls;)

nowdays in london anyway, the kids are using postcodes as markers, some actaully combine with each other so they have more numbers of people. ie E5 AND E7 MAN DEM, etc of SE15 crew etc but as you say it so bad now people ARE getting stabbed just for being in the wrong area, that is crazy!

and not only is it a stabbing but more ar eproving to be fatal attcks, sometimes invlovig not one person doing the stabbing but several…

tis madness, i really hope our goverment wake up soon.

42

I know buddy just having my rant !!! im a sick of this as anyone, im in a position where i should be able to do something but dont get a chance

43

I know buddy just having my rant !!! im a sick of this as anyone, im in a position where i should be able to do something but dont get a chance
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thats kool bud you rant away!:smiley:

i know i feel the fustration mate i honestly do, almost makes me wanna join up and do something about it!

44

it is such a thoughtful thread. i think ban knife doesn’t work, as a matter of fact, it makes law-biding people knifeless and defenseless facing the thugs armed with knivies. The law makes those who abide the law suffer.

gangs and thugs are really infantile form of tribalist,racist, and nationalist thugs. we 've got world leaders like bush and blair killing massively and “legitimately”, all the national and international organization sanction the state aggressions and killings. the cruelty and hypocrisy showed by the system are profound, what can we blame.

45

Absolutely right BBSMonk - world leaders like Bush etc hardly set an example regarding ‘the sanctity of human life’.:wink:

46

Gordon Brown too.

47

Got a lot to agree and disagree with on this to print tbh and a lot of experiences of these kids myself.

Let me tell you one thing that took the fight out of me though as one serving the front line.

I have been in seven years. I cant go into fact on this public forum.

Dealing proactively with certain ethnic minority youths from the troubled section of community as transposed in the media of late, over the course of 18 months I received four complaints from these members. Thats my political correct angle. Covered that already!

I was hauled into the office of heady heights, with those with all sorts of adornments to their epeaulettes, and asked what was going on.

I was effectively doing my job, challenging, stop and search and getting stuck in. I was on one point taken to interview of an allegation against me over my actions with a difficult character in the street, who liked a good challenge, and faced with disciplinary proceedings. Thats as much as im going to say.

Now, I care. I tried to make a difference every day, feeling the frustration of the general public and wearing my pride in trying to get justice for the law abiding majority and win win win everytime. Sometimes I got it wrong, with the particular person stopped… Im Human!

I was asked to calm down in how I dealt with people concerned. Now, TBH, the uniform is not respected on the street anymore, and it is a daily challenge to stop and speak with somene now, let alone stop and search without full on argumentative resentment, irritability, boulshiness, and evasiveness. This all leads to the suspicion in the mind that the person stopped does rightly so need searching as they have something to hide.

Sometimes it can just be the hatred of the uniform, the control, the power and what it respresents. So the search goes ahead and nothing is found. Now all the signs were there, but there is recourse for that person to lodge a complaint if they wish.

I was asked by the powers that be to calm down a little with my proactivity.

DO YOU KNOW HOW DEMORALISING that was with the fight against crime. Some days its a joy to pick up my paycheck and be glad of an easy shift now. It lost me my edge having that lecture from management. It destroyed all the enthusiasm.

Still, thats enough for this forum…

48

Total respect to you Hertscol - you are on the frontline and have first hand experience of this issue - thanks for being so upfront and sharing your views with us ;). I can imagine how angry it must make you to be berated by people who ‘fly desks’ - while you are out there dealing with the reality of social breakdown and increasing levels of violence and disorder on the street. You have my support mate.

I can’t match your personal and professional experience of this issue Hertscol (and I defer to it). All I can do is to try and look at things ‘in the round’ - personally I think that a whole lot of what happens in human affairs - from domestic crime levels to international warfare (which is often just another form of crime) - boils down to economics - a broader spread of wealth and opportunity tends to lead to societies that are less tense and more at ease with themselves - societies with significant imbalances in wealth tend to have higher levels of crime and social tension - e.g. the United States, Russia (in the post-Soviet Era - which saw 80% of the countries wealth divided up between a few oligarchs e.g. people like Roman Abramovich) and unfortunately us (New Labour has presided over increasing disparities in wealth) - a lot of the way people behave boils down to a sense of fairness - a lot of people are getting angry because they sense that a minority of people are excessively rewarded while the rest of us find our money is buying less and less - the British middle class are also increasingly feeling this pinch - the coming together of economic problems (increases in the price of oil, food, housing etc) with a disgruntled educated professional class (e.g. the middle class) will hopefully see political moves towards a society where social-solidarity takes it’s place again as an important aspiration for all of us (as it did after WWII resulting in N.H.S. etc) - instead of just aspiring to make money and aquire material goods and sod the rest of you.

I know that all this amounts to jack-all when you are apprehending some nasty little sh*t on the streets of London Hertscol - but I’m just trying to work out why we are in this mess - and trying to work out how we can all get out of it - and achieve a friendlier, happier society - where you don’t see your fellow citizen as a potential threat - but as a potential friend - sounds corny I know - buts surely it’s worth aspiring to? :wink:

49

I havent read all 3 pages of this topic but would like to add my view/2 pence on this. All week I’ve sat in my room watching the youth crime debates on tv.

it seems the youth are motivated by the 3 Rs respect,revenge and revenue. my first idea was to put these youngsters in national service were they will be teached discipline and use there mindless actions into good use by defending the country but I dont think sending a youngster playing with knifes and guns to be trained professionally to use and give them all the experience they want is a good idea and the fact that every servicemen I’ve met seem to be seriously affected mentally by what they do and done which is totally understandable.

I think this country needs to bring back capital punishment and use it for cases where there is overwhelming evidence for murder/pedeaphilia and maybe even attempting murder.

I do think sentances could be affective with the time they are giving at the moment if the time they spend in prison makes them think “I dont wanna bloody go back there again”. it seems people get it easy in prison my brother and other people I know who went to prison and they told me they actually enjoyed it there, WTF!!

I think solitary confinement for the extent of there stay is the way forward with them not able to mix with other criminals making friends and learning more tricks of the trades. Then educate, show the blinkers whats gonna happen when they get caught doing it, then they will learn to respect.

I came from a hard background growing up on estates having to live on handout clothes being the poor lad at school who never went on the school trips coz my family couldnt afford it and I only got 1 gcse, had to have afterschool tutors, attend sunday school coz I struggled but FFS i never complained that my life was hard and resorted to crime. I wokred hard and worked my way from the bottom to where I am and reaped the rewards.

these kids are greedy and want everything now and dont wanna work hard for it.

respect is earned not demanded!

50

we could also use the army for policing, but outhere but if we are facing a shortness of force they could be substituted

51

Us, us and us. We are to blame!! By not standing up for ourselves and voting in all the little tw4ts that pushed this PC crap forwards. Bury the head in the sand and then whine to the authorities when it’s too late.

Definitely Worth all the effort :DAs for my feelings on the police. You have a sh1t job at times and sometimes you get it wrong, but personally I think we have the best police force in the world it’s the justice system that lets us all down.:wink:

52

Too right hkdloz! - we have to stand up as a society and start sticking up for each other and not look the other way! We have to be FIRM and CLEAR about what we will and WON’T tolerate - we can only achieve that by standing together on this stuff :wink:

53

Whatever happened to rights go with responsibilities. Gone.

Most of these problems are down to bad parenting not lack of opportunity. Opportunities in this country are far greater than in most countries.

Most of these knife crimes are committed by blacks on blacks. Where are the fathers? Nowhere. They get the girls pregnant then bugger off. However just because there is no father doesn’t mean the mothers can’t teach discipline.

Unfortunately we are all to cowardly to tell the black community to get there arses in gear and police their own, because if you do you are a racist.

As has been mentioned these kids want it all without working for it. Being poor is no excuse for turning to crime.

What is the solution. If you don’t respect the law you have to fear the law.

Get caught with a knife, then it’s 5 years hard labour (that is 5 years with no early parole). Misbehave in prison and the sentence gets longer. We don’t have the prison spaces - so build them.

Let’s do the 3 strikes and you['re out.

Unfortunately the politicans are too afraid to do anything because they are frightened of not getting the votes.

Tony Blair promised that foreigners would be deported if they committed crimes. They were fine words until the courts decided that places like Zimbabwe are too dangerous to send criminal back to. China wont accept it’s scumbags back even if they have papers which most have destroyed anyway.

The country is doomed and there is NO way back because we wont build the prisons and hold up the parents to their responsibilities.

54

Great thread.

Sadly, there is violent behaviour going on all around us all the time. Individuals seem to go off the tracks at a very young age. They begin to feel like they are the victims of life and they want their revenge. It might seem like a cliche but there needs to be more effective intervention by peer groups when individuals lose their way. I agree with Hels and others here when they say we should all take or own share of responsibility as individuals and be proactive but this is also where problems can escalate. I read the few posts about the relatively ‘safe’ bete-noire Winehouse and I thought it was a bit off-topic but in fact it is the crux of the matter. People have a need to follow role models and IMO people who feel shunned or oppressed are even more inclined to do so. They will follow the model that is presented to them. The cult of celebrity, the cult of self-aggrandisement, the cult of ego. When we can all look at existence as a space we all inhabit equally then the violence will stop. I’m not holding my breath for that to happen anywhere in the near future.

55

A breeding licence would sort out most social problems within a couple of generations.

56

violence is like drugs, the feeling of empowering/terrorizing others can give you more excitement than drugs, that’s why, i guess.but those knife violence is retailed violence only, there are whole sale violence done by politicians and ideologues, they are the ones get more excitment out of it.

57

bit late catching up with this thread… i wil lread through later.

another one…this time in my area, 20 yeas old…RIP :frowning:

58

THREE youngsters fatally stabbed in N/E London last night:crazy:

One in Edmonton, one in Leyton and one in Walthamstow.

What the feck is going on?:crying:

59

make that two round my way then, hope its no one i know :frowning: seems there was 4! one in tottenham fella in his 40’s,

madness…

60

This is getting beyond a fuggin joke now :angry: