^ great post :Wow:
you going then?lol
I might be going. It all depends on what my shift is like tonight. Otherwise I’ll either be sleeping or watching on TV… perks of finishing at 5am! 
It’s the product of the historical process of globalisation Flats - something which the UK has been an instigator and active and willing participant in (at a political/ruling class level) for the last four centuries.
London isn’t one of the richest and most important cities in the world by accident - it got to be that way because it was the centre of a huge and highly profitable multi-cultural empire - most of the things that have happened in the UK since stem from these historical facts.
Regarding globalisation - it isn’t interested in my opinion or yours or anyone elses - it’s a bit like the weather - a large, complex process that encompasses history/empire/economics/culture/science etc etc.
The results of globalisation are good or bad depending on who and where you are at a particular point in time.
We ride Asian bikes powered by middle eastern petrol - that’s one side to globalisation that we probably both agree is good (although the quest for cheap petrol supplies has caused some people/environment a lot of trouble)
My opinion is that globalisation is principally benefiting a rich global elite and is dumping on ordinary people right across the world - not just in the UK.
If ordinary people across the globe realised how much they have in common and co-operated in common cause and for the common good rather than getting caught up in materialistic greed fantasies or in stupid pointless battles over race and religion etc then we might all start making some progress.
But yeah, your right, they probably won’t.
As for multiculturalism - my last multicultural experience was in an NHS ward when I was recovering from a broken leg after a bike accident - most of the nurses were Phillipino, the anaethsatist was a Sri Lankan guy - and they were some of the kindest most caring people I’ve met - doing incredibly valuable and important jobs.
There are a lot of sides to this story.
As for pride - the two things people in the UK should cherish and care about are democracy and the rule of law - it’s these two things that help to make the UK a far better place to live in than many other countries.
i’m proud to be english 
NinjaJunkie, I think you view the word multiculturalism slightly differently to me.
The multiculturalism that I dislike is the type that gives so much space, so much credence, so much time and effort to accommodate religious and ethnic diversities that those differences become self-contained and isolated and factors that separate us as a single nation.
You seem to equate multiculturalism with immigration. I equate multiculturalism to integration.
Yeah - I agree with you - if you go and live in a place you should make an effort to fit in and take part.
on this point - the Spanish complain that a lot of expat Brits rarely learn the languages and tend to congregrate together in isolated communities.
So this problem cuts right across the board.
This comparison is often drawn and yet it is incredibly flawed. There is a big difference to retiring to a place and actually planning on living, working and bringing up your family in a place, and yet in both examples the issue that neither side is actually integrated is meant to mean something.
I don’t think that it is a fair comparison at all.
Sorry if I gave the impression it was a direct comparison - It’s more of a comment on a universal aspect of human nature than a direct comparison - e.g. the human desire to congregate with people like oneself and follow ones own cultural norms after moving to a foreign setting - and how this can mitigate against integration into the host society.
Even used as an example of a universal theme it is unfair. For two reasons.
First, the same differences that I mentioned above still apply. People who emigrate to retire may not integrate, due to the nature of that group. Groups that emigrate to live and to work and raise a family must be held to a different standard of integration.
Second, Even if you were to show that this happens in other European countries, with the same group characteristics, it is not conclusive that this is a universal norm that underlies the human condition, rather than a political policy manifestation.
Very, very strange day at work today.
Office is fairly diverse in nationalities but on the whole, the Scots couldnt give a toss and some had union jack underware on so they could have their arse on the flag, the English were split about 50/50 but 99% of the Indian guys and gals were glued to the TV’s and loved every minute???
Kaos mate - your reading too much into this - just making the point that people who belong to the same class/religion/ethnicity whether they are British or whatever tend to stick together that’s all -it’s not an absolute truism - but nothing that pertain to people is - it’s just a general trend in human affairs - if we were to take in an anthropolical/sociological/historical study of every single variation on this theme across humanity over the last 10.000 years of human history to come to a definitive conclusion we would probaly break the internet or something - chill out mate - open a bottle of beer or something! 
patriotism, like religion, is an outdated idea.
Religion was the answer to things we didn’t understand, such as fire, floods, thunder, and lightning, plagues, death and bad luck…
Patriotism is the same really…all the imagery and idea is based on the notion that we are a tribe, when we go out and explore the world everyone else is different. Here’s our tribe. Our symbols are a lion, and a rose, a sense of fair play, chivalry and manners. Are they your symbols? No then you’re not British and therefore if we kill you, or enslave you that’s ok. We’d treat English people with manners, but you aren’t English so your views, thoughts, opinions, feelings and lives don’t matter …
Patriotism is mob-sponsored xenophobia for the insecure …
Yes - although we like to think that we live in a rational, scientific age there is a deep psychopathology and irrationality inherent in humanity that is often expressed in primitive forms of tribalism, superstition and ritual.
I disagree with the negative interpretation of patriotism. Surprisingly enough.
To bond on any sort of level, which is inherently required when dealing with a large group of individuals, it is beneficial to have a shared identity. This identity moves us away from doing something for a random human being who we don’t know, which is the vast majority of a people within a nation state, and into the realms of doing something for an individual to which we are associated.
These bonds are not something we should wish to devolve ourselves of.
Yeah totally - it just depends on the nature of the bonds doesn’t it?
e.g. a common way human beings bond themselves is to unite against or define themselves as different from ‘the other’ - whether that’s against supporters of another football team/religion/class/nationality/ethnicity etc - this does provide the glue that societies need to co-operate and actually achieve things but it can also produce the negative consequences that Toby refers to.