watched this last night …its like if they are playing call of duty
i saw something in the paper about this.
What’s quite interesting as well is the interview with the window and the two childlen, who survived the attack on the minivan badly injured:
https://www.youtube.com/v/Dw_5tZqzwXg&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999
I have a feeling these kids won’t grow up to be America fanboys.
As for the chopper pilots, it seems like it was just another day at the office for them. “Don’t bring your kids to a war zone”. Well, it was the Yanks that took the war into a residential area.
What’s shocking to me is how little the Americans I know care, or even know about things like these going on.
I suppose some Germans thought the same in the 1940s. “Oh we invaded Poland? Who cares. So we rounded up some Jews… not my problem.”
Until Bomber Harris showed up darkening their skies… Karma is a bitch, and I hope it will be for the yanks, too.
Yep - Karma is a bitch - if you dump sh1t on people sooner or later your gonna get sh1t dumped on you. The yanks still haven’t worked out this particular phenomenon.
The Americans justified their attack partly because the people on the ground were armed (with AK47s) - well of course they were f*cking armed - everyone in Iraq got hold of a gun after the invasion to protect themselves in a situation where law and order had completely broken down - because the U.S. dismantled the Iraqi Police and army and put nothing in their place.
i watched this, they are definetly armed with AK’s, and what did look like a long shaped object, posssibly an RPG?
thats all im going to say on here.
Ratty, did you not read my post mate? - every neighbourhood in Iraq was full of armed men after the invasion - the U.S. negligence in post invasion planning (i.e. there was none) and the Americans total dismantling of the Iraqi security forces meant that ordinary people were forced to take up arms to defend their neighbourhoods from criminal gangs and terrorists.
Therefore it should have come as no suprise to the crew of the Apache to see Iraqis walking around their neighbourhoods holding AK’s.None of those people deserved to be butchered like they were just pixels in a video game.
dude…BEFORE the invasion there AK’s and RPG’s everywhere, much liek afghansitan…much like Somalia…in wich the septics got there ass’s well and truly tanned!
there american dude, american soldiers are often trained to be like robots…thats how they are, not saying its right but thats how they are trained, if they suspect summit they act on it.
was the area an isurgent stronghold? high area of incidents? who knows!?
you must knwo of the term ‘the playstation generation’ ?
Mate - that is no defence of what appears in that video - it was bloody murder committed by a force that should not have been there in the first place.
With respect mate - I bet you wouldn’t be so detached if people close to you ended up looking like something you see in a butchers shop because of a bunch of aggressive trigger happy yanks hovering above your neighbourhood as if they were god - dispensing death with the press of a button.
i didnt say it was did i…
your right i wouldnt be…i’d probabaly try and shoot the bastards down!
I would care more if 52 people hadn’t been murdered in London and 3,000 in New York.
You are right though, Karma is a bitch.
In short - the heli pilots did exactly what they should’ve done, the reporters didn’t.
I don’t think any do. It’s really not fashionable.
It is just another day at the office for them. They’re soldiers in a war and, as far as they’re concerned they’ve just put paid to some of the enemy.
That reporters are dying?
I’d say it’s more concerning that the only way this can be made to be an issue at all is to get gun camera footage and play up the presence of photographers in it.
Well, similar I suppose.
There would’ve been a large proportion of the country who genuinely believed that the eradication of the bolsheviks was a good thing for the World and that the Germans deserved a bigger country.
I think there’s probably a lot of people, especially in the states, who believe that Iraq without Saddam Hussein is better than Iraq with him.
Yes. I think a war of indefinite length is clearly the better conclusion.
There are some problems here though aren’t there.
For instance, this reference to war. We all talk about the “war” in Iraq and the “war” in Afghanistan. Thing is, I am pretty sure that a War requires two opposing armies.
Take this phrase from the piece you linked to…
“The involvement of civillians is mostly caused by our adversary being one who hides in civillians.”
How are they not all civilians? Just because someone has a gun or a weapon or a bomb, does not mean that they are no longer civilians. If that is the case, we have been at “war” with Northern Ireland for ages, there was a short civil war in America at Waco, more civilians more weapons vs the army (they used a tank).
So I don’t think we can really call it a War and the problem is, when you realise you can’t call it a war anymore, you have to start admitting that this is an army vs civilians with weapons and that the “rules of war” don’t apply.
I was also quite disturbed by the shooting of civilians who were collecting the injured…we claim our red cross as something special and become quite aggreived when the “savages” fail to adhere to the rules of war. Yet isn’t it what they do that is special, not the fact that they have a red cross on their vehicles. Here the Helicoptor crew shot at unarmed, as far as I could see, people who were CLEARLY trying to help injured people. I am not sure when that became acceptable under any conditions.
As I said earlier, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for those involved. Islamic Fundamentalists took it upon themselves to attack America and kill 3,000 odd people. Now they know the consequences of that action.
no its not a ‘War’ its an Insurgnencie…apprently:D
Which really doesn’t make any sense, check the dictionary definition and an “insurgency” is a rebellion. You can only truly have a rebellion against a constituted Government.
Technically, it’s a fight for independance, it is a fight against an invading force.
Though obviously, admitting that you are slaughtering freedom fighters doesn’t go down so well.
Kaos - a lot of intelligent comments mate - but it is worth pointing out that the Iraqis until the U.S. invasion had no history of promoting Islamic fundamentalism - the Iraqi state was a horrible place ruled by a tyrant to be sure - but it was secular - the Islamic fundamentalist terrorists crept in after the U.S. invasion when they promptly started slaughtering Iraqis with car bombs and mass murder.
The people in the video were not terrorists and had nothing to do with 9-11 or 7-7 - they were just a local militia set up to defend their neighbourhood from criminal gangs and terrorists who infiltrated Iraq because of the invasion - in the absence of any proper law and order or security - something which was incumbent on the U.S. to provide as they were the occupying power.
The Iraqis had nothing to do with 9-11 or 7-7.
So, with respect, saying that you have little sympathy with the Iraqis because of terrorist crimes (9-11 and 7-7, which were carried out by elements from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) is the same kind of false logic that led to the invasion in the first place.
The elimination of Saddam Hussein was a good thing to be sure - but the Iraqi people did nothing to warrant the unprovoked attack and criminally mismanaged occupation that they have been subjected to.
Problem I think here NinjaJunkie is that people try to read too much into Iraq.
“it was about stopping Al-Qaeda”…“it was about oil”…“it was about 9/11”…“It was about American imperalism.”
I take a different view.
This was America showing the Muslim/Islamic world that when you attack them, you pay a hefty price. They choose Iraq because they already had a beef with Iraq, and it suited them to attack Iraq, but it could have been any Muslim/Islamic country, perhaps apart from Saudi Arabi and even that country is not completely safe from American aggression.
This was saying, police your own or pay the price, it was nothing more then a message. The idea of separating out one country from another is pointless. This was a message sent to the Muslim world. Once you view it in that light you have a choice to make. Is that acceptable or is it not.
Which there is, surely? It’s two bodies of armed people trying to prove a point by killing as many of the other as possible. It’s as much a war as any civil war or war of indeopendence has been.
I don’t know, really. How are you divvying up people between ‘civillian’ and ‘soldier’?
I’d, generally, put people who voluntarily find themselves armed and on a battlefield into the ‘soldier’ category.
It depends on exactly what it is that they’re doing, though.
The red cross on the vehicle isn’t just a ‘don’t shoot me, I’m picking up the injured’. The other side if it is that a red cross/crescent/crystal on a vehicle says it’s not involved in the fighting - it’s unarmed and only concerned with picking up the injured. Without that, it’s just another vehicle, irrespective of what it happens to be doing.
No, you cannot say that this is an army, just because more then 2 people have a weapon and want to kill people. By this standard every Government in the world is currently at war with its own citizens.
An army is an employed body of people who are trained, armed and organised by a Government. It is quite easy in the case of Iraq to divvy up Civilian vs Soldier…everyone but the invading forces are civilian, since the invading forces dismantled the Government and disbanded the army.
You could claim that they were fighting a militia, at best, and I don’t think it even reaches those requirements, but an Army vs Militia, does not a war make. As I said, there was not a short war at Waco and that was Army vs Militia.
I also can’t fathom this idea that “regardless of what someone is doing” surely what someone is doing is EVERYTHING which the Armed forces should be looking at to decide on whether to open fire. People collecting the injured, regardless of the type or colour of the vehicle they were in should not be fired upon unless they fire upon the armed forces.