Use of indicators when overtaking

Coming over Blackheath, following a few cars & positioned in o/s wheel tracks. Occasionally sticking my nose out, looking for the overtake.
Bike coming in opposite direction obviously doing the same as first I saw of him was when he brushed passed my elbow!
No high viz, no indicate…just a headlight which was muddled in with every other cagers.
FFS - how hard is it to flick that little button. Its makes such a difference in being seen when approaching oncoming traffic.
:angry:

Sorry, but I have a black bike with black winter/waterproof clothing and mostly black helmet - I don’t wear a high vis as I have a headlight and a rear light so if that can’t be identified then what good is a high vis?? Plus I don’t indicate whilst filtering as the person who rarely checks their mirror properly will assume your changing lane/turning off behind them and move out on you!!!
If you were both checking for the overtake then that suggests you were both close to the middle line and you really should have both been able to see the headlight in between the cars - if you wear high vis it wouldn’t have been visible to him as your headlight would the light his eyes would focus on!
Not having a dig at you, but if you were both looking for the overtake/filter opportunity then there isn’t really a fault on just his side because he didn’t indicate - I wouldn’t have… Bit like the people filtering with their hazards on - hazards mean stopping/stopped or problem!!!

If he had indicated, I’d have seen him sooner and tucked back in.

Yeah but a car in front of him might have pulled out on him??!!

I can only tell you how i saw it. I was unable to spot him til late as his headlight merged with other traffic. Whether he saw me I cant answer. He may well have assumed I had seen him and that i was going to tuck back but i didnt.
If you wear black and don’t indicate, I doubt I’d have seen you either.
Its not a right or wrong question. Im just giving you my pov.

Ah, f**k it… no harm done at the end of the day. Live & learn today, be safer tomorrow.

The main reason I wear hi-vis is for filtering - it seems to make you stand out more amongst the headlights for oncoming vehicles.

May just be wishful thinking on my part.

I don’t always indicate overtakes though, for the reason Sean pointed out above.

Its a single lane each direction (not counting the filter lanes for the few turn offs)
Btw - foggy as fcuk here in Barkingside atm!!

Niteowl if you were both doing the same thing, were you not indicating either? You were moving out and back so I’m guessing you weren’t indicating either, it would confuse other road users. It sounds like an everyday occurrence that we all do from time to time. It’s poor technique on our part. Sounds like poor technique on both your parts as you both failed to give and receive the available information? :wink:

I was always taught to have an initial look, move out, look again, decide if the overtake is on, indicate right, accelerate etc?

I think Bikers have a way way over inflated view of who can see them. I had it too for a long time…if you can’t see the headlight, then what use is a Hi Viz!

Bullshit, you think 1 light is going to show up in a sea of headlights? You are crazy.

I can’t see bikes behind me in my car if they are more than 1 cars length behind, and I will go one step further and say, I can’t see bikes while on my bike that are more than 1 cars behind me…and that includes doing a shoulder check.

It is just impossible, except in those rare cases where it is a dual headlamp or one of those nutters on a BMW with 37 headlights mounted around the front of their bike.

Most bikes and scooters have 1 headlight at about the same height as the vehicles around them, lorries, vans etc, and it is impossible in the amount of time you have to look to see that single headlight in a sea of bright headlights.

Sure if the bike is right behind, you can usually tell, but behind the car behind, even at the side, it is just not clear.

Saying all this, I don’t wear a Hi - Viz, I just drive assuming that everyone else is blind.

Thanks for backing me up Kaos. I can understand the point made by sean about cars thinking you might be turning right but in this instance, there’s few turnings. Its a straight stretch of road and a good place to make progress by bikes going in either direction. A r/h indicate DOES stand out more than just a headlight and provides bikes and dozy cagers coming towards you with greater time to see you (overtaking) imho.
I always try to put myself in other road users positions.
I also tend not to wear a high viz during summer nights but do in the wet/damp. Mainly because I know how much a wet visor/windscreen at night, can impaire & distort others visibility of me.
That halo effect it can cause etc.
Each situation is different and I appreciate an indicate isnt always necessary. In this instance, I felt it would have been hugely beneficial though.

Nowt wrong there. It too basic but good. The reason for giving and receiving info is that the other rider could have been, as you said, doing the same as you. Sounds like you both failed to take on board there were blind spots in front of you and the possibility of a bike to imerge from there or the other bike was seen and inappropriate action taken.

Riding through London is survival of the fittest.
Make your overtake without hesitation aim your bike directly at the oncoming rider if you make the move first it is your right of way, don’t pull back into your lane until the last minute. :slight_smile:

Nowt wrong there. It too basic but good. The reason for giving and receiving info is that the other rider could have been, as you said, doing the same as you. Sounds like you both failed to take on board there were blind spots in front of you and the possibility of a bike to imerge from there or the other bike was seen and inappropriate action taken.

WTF - I can see bikes in my mirrors on my bike and in my car at least 6/7 cars back if they are/have been filtering and on the motorways about 20 or 30 back… How can you not see them!!!

Plus were talking about in front of you in oncoming traffic so if there is something with a headlight near/on the white line then its not clear to pass so Why TF would you be close to the line too as it doesn’t make a difference if its a car or a bike its already in that space and you should be back in behind the vehicle in front!

You understand that this is at night, in the winter when it is dark and all that you can discern on ANY vehicle…is a headlight.

Not sure how you can look at a black background with only a bright headlight and gain knowledge that there is a bike back there.

indeed, it’s normally a minicab with one headlight out…

Sounds like overtaking rather than filtering.
If you are going at any sort of speed and the traffic is moving it counts as an overtake in my book and as such you should be making sure there is no oncoming traffic when you go to make the overtake.
If something is coming the other way you have to assume there is a bike/cyclist/pedestrian behind it waiting to pop out at the last minute and ruin your day. If they are going to do that it won’t make a lot of difference if they are indicating or not. Unless I’m certain the car/bus coming towards me doesn’t have something lurking behind it I’ll wait until it has passed before I position for the overtake, indicate and manoeuvre.

“Plus were talking about in front of you in oncoming traffic so if there is something with a headlight near/on the white line then its not clear to pass so Why TF would you be close to the line too as it doesn’t make a difference if its a car or a bike its already in that space and you should be back in behind the vehicle in front!”

The bike coming towards me would have had the same
space and view yet whilst I decided an overtake wasnt viable, he felt it was! :wink: