URGENT - is ABS worth investing in? Does the bike stop quicker? Need to buy bike tomorrow....

I guess the insurance companies have done their sums too and give a discount for this safety feature, so it must work I suppose for the majority of their customers.

I am pretty sure I’m going to buy an '06 model now, this doesn’t have an ABS option. It is 1200 quid less which is v. attractive.

This of course would be money well spent if it prevented me dumping the bike one day, I hope I won’t regret opting for less cost than arguebly improved safety. I continually work on reading the road to improve so in an ideal world, hammering on the anchors ‘should’ be unecessary. I don’t commute any more and if there is low temperatures (i.e. < about 8 degs C) I tend to woose out of a rideout

Then you have the deer in the road scenario, where that is something even the most advanced riders would not be able to foresee IMO.

Thanks for all your valueble feedback. Always appreciated.

Roll on the weekend! LOL

It is not the job of an ABS to decrease the distance it takes a vehicle to stop compared to a break not fitted with anti-locking system, but to maintain is controllability, i.e. being able to steer it around an obstacle. On a motorbike that is actually not quite true, because there is no system available yet that can achieve this. ABS on a bike is currently only able to help you stay upright.

The only times the breaking distance with a functioning ABS are increased is when the ground is loose (gravel, snow, sand) or ice. That is because the loose ground will form a wedge in front of the wheel, thus increasing the breaking force.

Normally the best deceleration is achieved when the tyre decelerates around 20-30%, meaning if 10 meter distance are driven, the tyre only runs 7 to 8 meters.

This is because every tyre has an ‘stiction optimum’ where it grips and achieves the best breaking force. A locked-up tyre does not achieve grip but friction. Friction is generally a quarter less effective than stiction.

I’ll get my coat.

Good point about diesel on the road. Am thinking though if you are banking, and ride over diesel and not applying brakes, you’re going down anyways.

Now my brain is thouroughly mangled

the ABS system is to stop the brakes locking. that’s all it does. if you steer, you reduce the tyres ability to grip so you can brake with less force if you’re steering without skidding. clearly better than hitting an object in front of you, and hopefully removing enough speed that if you hit a secondary object, it’ll hurt less

on a car, ABS allows you to brake to the limit in all situ’s, steering or straight line.

braking manually and braking with ABS give in theory the same shortest distance. in reality, you or i can’t do that in a stress situation. it keeps you on the right side of the stiction vs friction issue you’re talking about.

greatscott, dont worry, b*gger all people have ABS on their bikes. like el krauto has mentioned, steering and braking on bikes gets you into a world of trouble anyway. save the cash and spend it on the track

grip on corner…thats getting us into traction control. diesel youre screwed either way

I’d say that if you’re a novice and you are likely to always ride a bike on the touring side of sports bikes, then ABS can be useful.

As a novice, your survival reactions are gonna be pretty high so that if a situation crops up where you have to do an emergency brake, you’re more than likely gonna grab a fistful, lock and wash out the front and find yourself sliding towards an object at speed behind your bike…Ouch.

Take both Fazers on a test ride and see what you think.

I’d choose ABS…It’s one less thing to worry about in a panic situation.

And Johnny…I think it will be a good day when proper traction control comes to bikes (as long as you can turn it off though).

Sorry for going back to a topic as old as this one but after some long hours of research I am still pretty confused (and I cannot find any other ABS-related threads).

Regarding “not teaching the proper technique”. Don’t you think that it apparently teaches it? Isn’t it that all you need to do is to brake as close as possible to the point when ABS cuts in? Surely it cuts in a bit before the whell locks but does it really do it that early that it isn’t worth it?

Right now, I have to decide on ABS or not. Price difference is rather big so should be a no brainer but still, I think of ABS as of something that could save a few bones that one time, when I will have no time to think much. Not all the time as I agree it cannot be an excuse for bad braking. So if I do everything to prevent it from cutting in, I am doing it right?

Or did I misunderstood something?

I rode non-ABS bikes from when I started riding in 1997 until 2007, when I got my first ABS bike (a Bandit 1250SA).

As a result of my 17,500 miles experience with ABS, and 60,000 miles without, my very strong view is that they should pass a law whereby all new bikes should be fitted with ABS as standard. ABS is to bikes what seat belts are to cars. I would absolutely never go back to a non-ABS bike.

And no, ABS does not noticeably reduce stopping distance. We tested this on the skid pan at Kent Police Training Centre in Maidstone during a machine control day with KAMG, and there was no noticeable difference.

Unless you are running TKC 80’s where I reckon stopping distance is doubled

Personally I think ABS is a no brainer. Go for it.

You won’t know it’s there or need to think about it until that dark rainy night (when you are cold and tired) and the unexpected happens and your ABS quietly prevents a skid - keeping you upright.

It’s not something you need to think about, it’s there for when you make a mistake . If you are riding well, judging the road, speed, distances etc. correctly then you won’t need it. But we are human and we don’t always get things right . . .

All the studies I have seen have concluded that it is a useful and potentially lifesaving feature. Yes, in certain specific situations, a real expert can brake slightly better without ABS - but in more real world situations (like that above) a complete noob on an ABS bike can outbrake an expert on a non-ABS bike.

Some riders who have spent years learning to brake with great skill can look down their noses at ABS but very very few riders are actually that good and never make mistakes.

Doug

There was a study done by insurance companies in the US recently comparing accident statistics, and it was found that on a like for like basis riders of bikes with ABS were 38% less likely to have a fatal accident than those without.

The study only concerned itself with models where ABS is an option. I suspect that there might be a degree of selection bias too. (Safety conscious riders go for it, whilst risk takers don’t.) But I think that it gives a very strong argument to tick that box.

Just recently read about the track tests on the new Blade with ABS, say its awesome under heavy braking. It must be a good thing, Honda has just spent £1000’s & £1000’s developing a system smaller & lighter and would not bother if it did not have a benefit.

Never used a bike with ABS but a cage with ABS is so much better.I think your best option is to give ABS & non a ride and see if it suits your riding.

Had a couple of FJ1200 Yams a few years back…one with , one without ABS. I always felt happier on the non ABS bike…I guess in a panic grab at the brakes it might just let you off the hook but if you’re near enough an accident to panic brake your probably off anyway …ABS or not.:slight_smile:

+1 for ABS, like it’s been said by the honorable forum members it might just prevent you losing the front when you panic brake and screw on the front brake on too hard.

+1 for Dual-CBS too, it looks crappy on paper (rear brake engaging when I use front?? front brake engaging when I use rear, whaa??) but in practise this makes for a really great stopping bike. Trust me, I’ve come up on a traffic queue after a bend once on the Autobahn and I went from 150 to 0 in about 3 seconds without going end over end. Great stuff, both of these technical inventions, when you do need them. :w00t:

Poke to 'Busa owners: Yes your bikes are faster but you would have plowed straight into that sh*t no doubt xD

Tests on the new ABS equipped CBRs in the latest isuue of BIKE magazine. They rate it. I have no idea :blush:

Interesting to see how the flavour of posts on this topic has changed over time. :cool:I’ve had ABS on my last 3 scooters (since 2002) and I do about 12k miles a year. In that time it has activated 3 times (Commercial Road twice, and just off Parly Sq, all in the wet) and I reckon has saved me and some pedestrians serious injury, let alone bodywork repairs - so well worth it. My personal view is that I will NOT have a bike without ABS as I consider it essential for normal road use, especially if you intend to commute in all weathers.

An Italian magazine ran a test on 2 otherwise identical scooters when they were launched with an ABS option. See the table below - you do not need to understand Italian to get the gist of it. The ABS bike stopped quicker whether in the wet or dry.

http://www.cyberscooter.it/modelli/peugeot/redazione/images/satelis125pf0005_m.gif

Also see my avatar - this was the result of an emeregency braking test in the wet conducted by a french mag last year. The lack of gyroscopic force when the front locks, even with a three-wheeler, can be devastating.

Have ridden bikes with & without, and have it on my VFR. There’s loads of debate on this one, and think the consensus of opinion is that if you’re a very good rider and you’re focusing on your riding in the dry, you can usually out-break it. Otherwise, for the rest of us mere mortals, it can be very useful.

IIRC there’s quite a variety of performance depending on manufacturer and age. My VFR’s an 05 and I can stop much faster on it that I could without, certainly in the wet. But the confidence it gives for a panic grab of anchors is great, if only psychosomatic. This month’s Bike has a review of the new Honda CBRR version, and they reckon it’s the bollix of the dog.

Maybe get a demo of the FZ1 with and without and make up your own mind?

I’m curious, to those who are anti ABS, when do you think it is a disadvantage ?

Doug

after 30 odd years on bikes I went for a bike with ABS, after watching my dipshit neighbour write off 2 GSX1400 bikes in under 6months! they were his first and second bikes respectively, and proved to me that it is ridiculous allowing virgins onto the road after passing an intensive fast-route course! in the first accident he managed through lack of attention to come up on a line of slowing bikes ,and in panic he grabbed a handfull of front brake, naturally he lost the front, and hit the R6 in front writing it off! that then hit my bike (which fortunatly was stationary by then so just got laid down) the engine cases and crank end on his 6 month old bike were toast and we spent a happy couple of hours waiting for him to be recovered.His insurance replaced the bike with another new one that didn’t quite last 6 months before a similar low speed panic attack took it to the scrap yard, ABS would have saved the day in both cases, (as an aside a couple of months after the 2nd bike was totalled I came across another GSX1400 on the floor at a roundabout near my house, talking to the guy it turns out that he picked his bike up at the same dealer and day as my neighbour, and it met its end a low speed when he grabbed too hard at the brakes going into athe roundabout ! ) when I got my next bike I got the RT and one reason was the ABS, I have years and miles of experience in bikes cars and vans, and one thing its taught me is how its the unexpected that allways gets you, those little things that no one notices ,the overbanding, the smear of slime on the junction, I still look out for them but I have a last line of defence …the ABS its only cut in 4-5 times in 4 years , but each time it could have gone south quickly if not for the ABS, when I learnt to ride bikes they all had drum rears with big footpedals on, a combination that several times saw me broadsiding towards pedestrian crossings, taxi’s you name it, God wouldn’t I have loved ABS then :slight_smile: its progresss towards safety and its going to be standard before long get over it! the only place its not wanted is on the racetrack, partly because racers actually use the skidding in their cornering technique, for the rest of us …if you notice it when riding, then you are too close to the limit and can I have first dibs on any good organs you leave :stuck_out_tongue:

oh and my moron neighbour? sorry to say he went for a bike the will never throw him off with excessive front braking…a Harley Davidson heritage softail …so be warned :stuck_out_tongue:

A GSX1400 as a first bike? That’s pretty moronic. He should have started out on an old nail he doesn’t mind crashing.

And then… a Harley? Does your neighbor have too much money or something? I’m happy to provide my bank details to ease the pain.

the man has an ego the size of a house ! he got the bikes on the never-never and the first 2 cost him almost nothing due to the terms of his insurance (through motorcycle city) or so he claims, never bothered to check to be honest, he’s a royal pain in the ass as apparently the HD needs to tickover for 20mins before being ridden, well he lets it anyway, with straight through pipes its a joy when you’re hung over I can tell you! of course it lets everyone see his pride and joy :wink: