# Stupid fine **URL:** \ **Category:** Off-topic\ **Created:** [20 July 2007 15:22 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028 "2007-07-20T15:22:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![R6scally](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@R6scally](https://londonbikers.com/u/R6scally)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 15:22 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/1 "2007-07-20T15:22:32Z")
Normally for work i come down whitechapel road and right into a stret called Greatorex Street. One morning last week this road was blocked off for workigns so I continued down the road and the next right is into Osborn Street which runs into Brick Lane. I was looking for no right turn signs, and seeing none i waited for lights to turn green, waited for traffic in opposite direction to stop and turned right. I did same for next couple of days as well until they also closed that road off at which point I had to find an alternate route entirely. Unfortunately I’ve had a demand for payment of a £120 fine for failing to observe the straightover only signs at the junction (and they’re there, blue disc white arrow) which i totally failed to register that they meant I couldn’t turn right ![](https://londonbikersarchive.blob.core.windows.net/forums/skins/classic/images/emoticons/sad.gif "Sad") it seems there’s a camera there as well as they’ve sent a picture of me waiting… Anyone got an idea as to best way to fight this as i wasn’t deliberately flouting the road markings, i just didn’t see the sign i expected to see so made a mistake. I’m also worried they may send two or 3 more fines for same infringement, is this likely? ![](https://londonbikersarchive.blob.core.windows.net/forums/skins/classic/images/emoticons/crying.gif "Crying") ---
**Author:** ![keithdw](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@keithdw](https://londonbikers.com/u/keithdw)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 15:44 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/2 "2007-07-20T15:44:41Z")
Ummm, unfortunately the people who send out these fines don’t really care that you’ve made a mistake, or didn’t see the signs. If the sign is obstructed or not clear in some what you might get away with it. Really sorry that’s not more helpful or constructive but I’ve tried the ‘daft laddie’ and ‘innocent’ approach before and neither have worked. If does however often depend on which council it is, if they’re biker freindly they may let you off with a warning. You could also try the trick of sending in an undated cheque, or chequw without the valid amount on it - either often result in the council not chasing you and as they cant cash the check you get away with it, but it can take a long time and doesn’t always work. I guess the other alternative is to refuse to pay and go to court and argue it out there, stating that due to road closures there was no obvious alternate route? Honestly? I’d pay the first fine and hope they don’t fine you 3 or 4 times. ---
**Author:** ![biggus](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@biggus](https://londonbikers.com/u/biggus)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 15:48 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/3 "2007-07-20T15:48:37Z")
Surely they’d need to mark it with a “no right turn”? ---
**Author:** ![keithdw](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@keithdw](https://londonbikers.com/u/keithdw)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 15:54 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/4 "2007-07-20T15:54:28Z")
You’d think so, but some signs overrule others so they don’t bother putting the ones they overrule up. That could be your defense, there was no ‘No Right turnSign’ (assuming there isn’t of course) only a straight on sign, which could be argued to be ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![R6scally](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@R6scally](https://londonbikers.com/u/R6scally)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 16:01 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/5 "2007-07-20T16:01:13Z")
There is definately no no right turn sign, I can see the junction from my office window… so that may be my only hope ![](https://londonbikersarchive.blob.core.windows.net/forums/skins/classic/images/emoticons/sad.gif "Sad") ---
**Author:** ![chuffster](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@chuffster](https://londonbikers.com/u/chuffster)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 16:04 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/6 "2007-07-20T16:04:43Z")
And they always said that those cameras would not be used for prosecution purposes, just observation. You will need to be careful what you say, as not observing things could land you in Riding without due care and attention. ---
**Author:** ![ChunkyMonkey](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@ChunkyMonkey](https://londonbikers.com/u/ChunkyMonkey)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 16:09 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/7 "2007-07-20T16:09:57Z")
I’ve just had a £120 penalty charge for stopping on a red line at 2.00 am to let a punter go to the hole in the wall ![](https://londonbikersarchive.blob.core.windows.net/forums/skins/classic/images/emoticons/sad.gif "Sad") Can’t fight it mate, banged to rights, just pay up ![](https://londonbikersarchive.blob.core.windows.net/forums/skins/classic/images/emoticons/crying.gif "Crying") ---
**Author:** ![R6scally](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@R6scally](https://londonbikers.com/u/R6scally)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 16:16 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/8 "2007-07-20T16:16:54Z")
Surely the council can’t do you for Riding without due care and attention? Or would they pass it on to the police? ---
**Author:** ![mattcbf600](https://londonbikers.com/user_avatar/londonbikers.com/mattcbf600/32/37518_2.png) [@mattcbf600](https://londonbikers.com/u/mattcbf600)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 16:18 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/9 "2007-07-20T16:18:43Z")
The straight-on arrows define ‘one way’ and no turn off in any direction… it’s better than putting up 3 different signs that may be confusing. Unfortunately ‘ignorance’ is not a defence as I’ve found out to my own cost when I’ve mis-read signs - pays to know the Highway Code inside out these days. m ---
**Author:** ![Giuliano](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/ec9cab/32.png) [@Giuliano](https://londonbikers.com/u/Giuliano)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 16:27 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/10 "2007-07-20T16:27:27Z")
As far as I can see there is no requirment for there to be a no-right turn sign if there is an ahead only (which you describe) sign. however, you would normally see these together. I can’t see a legal cause for an appeal to succeed, but you could try an argument, that if local authorities can place either a no-right turn, or an ahead only sign how is a driver/rider meant to know what they are looking for when planning to turn right? Clearly Parliament can’t have intended the sign system to be deliberatly confusing or to allow the local authority to prosecute people who despite taking care on an unfamilar road to do the right thing failed to see a sign the local authority haven’t bothered to erect! I doubt you would win with that. It is also worth writing to your MP, Ken, DoT, the council, the local paper, Evening Standard etc as if local authorities can do this, why should they bother signing things properly as they have a financial incentive to manage traffic poorly? ---
**Author:** ![Giuliano](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/ec9cab/32.png) [@Giuliano](https://londonbikers.com/u/Giuliano)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 16:33 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/11 "2007-07-20T16:33:48Z")
One way is a square sign and technically denotes the road as one way- You can still have an ahead only (a round sign) in a two way street. As I said if somethign is prohibited the council need ot make it clear if they plan to prosecute or they have an incentive to make things confusing for motorists. ---
**Author:** ![ChoccieMuffin](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@ChoccieMuffin](https://londonbikers.com/u/ChoccieMuffin)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 16:55 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/12 "2007-07-20T16:55:40Z")
If you want to do a bit of research yourself, take a look at [http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm](http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm) which is THE authority on what the law says. I challenge you not to fall fast asleep over it, it’s mind-numbingly tedious! ---
**Author:** ![Stu\_SV](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Stu\_SV](https://londonbikers.com/u/Stu_SV)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 16:59 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/13 "2007-07-20T16:59:12Z")
I Got done like this in the car as well. Makes my blood boil that they are policing by camera now instead of actual Police officers. If it was a real Police officer, 1. He would have probably just told you not to do it in the first place. 2. If he wanted to give you a ticket there’s a chance he would accept your defence of the roadworks up the road. 3. He would be able to help you find an alternative route. 4. You would know right away & not keep doing it for a week - Ouch! Only cost me £50 though ![](https://londonbikersarchive.blob.core.windows.net/forums/skins/classic/images/emoticons/confused.gif "Confused") Good Luck, sorry I can’t help. At least I know now to look for the ahead only sign, then look for a No turn sign before turning at any strange junction in London. ---
**Author:** ![ChunkyMonkey](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@ChunkyMonkey](https://londonbikers.com/u/ChunkyMonkey)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 17:03 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/14 "2007-07-20T17:03:38Z")
Not necessarily ![](https://londonbikersarchive.blob.core.windows.net/forums/skins/classic/images/emoticons/crying.gif "Crying") I copped a fine and 3 points for “Failing to comply to a traffic signal” when I was 17. (Did a right at a set of lights when the ahead green arrow was showing) Not all coppers are compassionate ![](https://londonbikersarchive.blob.core.windows.net/forums/skins/classic/images/emoticons/angry.gif "Angry") ---
**Author:** ![keithdw](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@keithdw](https://londonbikers.com/u/keithdw)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 17:04 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/15 "2007-07-20T17:04:12Z")
Thats a point. Was the camera signposted? I’m also not convinced they can use cameras for general breaches of highway code like that. Sure, speeding, jumping red lights, driving in bus lanes are all fair game and we know that. but since when were ther cameras policing “no right turns”?? What else is being policed with camers in this way?? ---
**Author:** ![R6scally](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@R6scally](https://londonbikers.com/u/R6scally)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 17:04 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/16 "2007-07-20T17:04:58Z")
my one consolation is that as it’s a council there are no points involved… just a ruddy great fine! ---
**Author:** ![ChunkyMonkey](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@ChunkyMonkey](https://londonbikers.com/u/ChunkyMonkey)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 17:07 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/17 "2007-07-20T17:07:10Z")
All infringements caught on camera are fair game now. As I said I have just copped a £120 for stopping on a Red Route at 2 in the morning. My mate got one a few weeks ago for doing a U turn in West end. Do the crime yadda yadda yadda ![](https://londonbikersarchive.blob.core.windows.net/forums/skins/classic/images/emoticons/crying.gif "Crying") ---
**Author:** ![keithdw](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@keithdw](https://londonbikers.com/u/keithdw)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 17:12 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/18 "2007-07-20T17:12:20Z")
But the council arent the police, how can they prosecute you for a right turn like that? The police can, but the council? Until very recently traffic wardens were in effect specific police and theyre job was to prosecute specific road offences, like parking in restricted areas, parking without paying etc… That changed, at least it did in London, not that long ago and now the parking attendants are council employees with quotas to hit, but traffic wardens are still police, they just dont do as much (if any) of the parking work. I was unaware that our councils are now an extension of our police force. ---
**Author:** ![keithdw](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@keithdw](https://londonbikers.com/u/keithdw)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 17:13 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/19 "2007-07-20T17:13:33Z")
Well that sucks…!! ---
**Author:** ![ChunkyMonkey](https://londonbikers.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@ChunkyMonkey](https://londonbikers.com/u/ChunkyMonkey)\ **Post date:** [20 July 2007 17:17 UTC](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028/20 "2007-07-20T17:17:56Z")
I think you will find it is not your council but Transport For London who are working in partnership with the Met Police on such stuff. Google “London Local Authorities Act 2000” Mine says that if you don’t argue and pay within 14 days you get 50% off. [Next page](https://londonbikers.com/t/stupid-fine/71028.md?page=2)