Socialism is dead !

“Prescott denied reports that he did not want the “flunkery and titles” of the House of Lords, despite saying as much in an interview with the Scotsman two years ago.”

There’s nothing left to say . . . . :Whistling: :slight_smile:

And capitalism is in good health?


p.s. - It’s certainly in rather rude health and making a big comeback in S.America - and the growing latino population in the States + endemic poverty and a failed economic system their might see it take over the heartland of the beast* ;)* many north americans are lovely people and not at all beast like - but their military industrial nexus is rather beast like. . .

Like that fat idiot who was part of the “New Labour” movement EVER represented Socialism.

Absolutely. Socialism in this country was always just an act - if you want to see a more authentic stab at socialism you have to look at countries like Venezuela.

Actually - that’s not fair - the Atlee government did some really good things for the ordinary people of this country.


‘that’ll learn ya’ for not properly researching every future post title

Yep! :smiley:

d’you know, I’d rather just get on with my life than worrying about labels - socialist, capitalist, whatever.

As long as the country is going in generally the right direction (and that’s the direction that treats people with respect, not treating people as criminals for putting the wrong rubbish in the wrong bin, and not wanting to come into peoples houses so they can raise tax more if it’s nice), it’s ok with me.

We need to look after citzens. Health care, sure. Unemployment benefits, sure. Infrastructure, absolutely. Beyond that, it’s all hot air. I’d rather be playing with my kids and riding my bike.

here here! ;):cool:

socialism never was alive, it was a myth created by powerful greedy devious people to give us mere mortals hope in a world free from the illusion of religion - you won’t see a union in a fundamentalist country

troll . . .

Suspending disbelief, if we acknowledged this possibility…

Where then, do you think this myth derived from, if not from capitalistic self-centredness?

Socialism means different things to people in different cultural groups: the Americans have a very narrow take on Socialism compared to Latin America; and certainly the UK versus the rest of Europe - we all use the same term however often refer to specific facets of socialism at the risk of confusing dialogue with the anti-social :smiley:

Let’s take a specific context for example - thinking of the South American situation, Liberation Theology in its catholic socialist form espoused by Guitterez was responsible for the very advocacy of the oppressed and persecuted; the orphans and widows - those subjugated to an unjust war waged by the United States - in the very position of powerlessness. It has far reaching consequences - even researchers such as Professor Danforth in the Missouri state has adopted Liberation Theology as applied to those with disabilities:

Disabilities disempower; those who are weak and untended to by the state: for them, if it makes sense… that those who are powerless and helpless, are brought into awareness of their inherent (spiritual) power, to refute bullying; persecution and a tyrannical state i.e. the liberation or ‘salvation’ from the persecutor - then you can see why communist countries are as suspicious or hate-laden when it comes to forms of socialism, if not as suspicious of socialism, as those in capitalistic mindsets. It was never a ‘religion’ as such, being a political movement, which agglutinated the masses through religious ties.

There is a danger of subversiveness, when the weak and powerless express their will to defy the order (of materialism); or when the weak and those with no voice, protest against those who subjugate them. This is where religion and community ~ of the oppressed ~ rose up to show what we now understand as the specific form of socialism in the Latin American countries.

Perhaps you are correct to a degree, when you say that the existence of a union or syndicate in a fundamentalist country is impossible, is a logical consequence. This observation however, has nothing to do with the throwaway statement that “socialism never was alive, it was a myth created by powerful greedy devious people.” Your balls would be cut off by those in Latin American countries who won their national identity and ejected overwhelmingly superior American fire power by demonstrating that the very faith and its translation into action ~ that is - ‘liberation theology’ - is indeed socialism alive. But to the happy middle-classes who own their own bikes; have their own income and reap what they sow in a material world, oh yes - it can very easy be true for you … that socialism is dead.

This narrow worldview, however does not bear out on the wider social community :slight_smile:

Actually, this is completely correct. Where I come from, people work hard and take care of those with misfortune.

For those of you that believe the lie of socialism in the UK – I feel sorry for you. You just don’t know any better. You’ve been sold a lie of gross government misconduct, misspending, and control that serves a a pacifier for the lazy and an impediment to the ambitious.

BigJ - I take it from the above that you and your family have never used state education or the National Health Service. Both institutions pioneered and promoted by socialists?

Because if you are as self reliant as you say you are then I’m guessing your parents paid for your education directly and that you went to a private school and that (if you have kids) you pay for their education directly and that you also have private health insurance?

In other words you don’t rely on any of the educational or health benefits brought to the ordinary British public by idealistic socialists in any way shape or form?

Is this the case?

Yup, completely agree. Add to that the view that anyone who thinks they should be able to set the rules that govern their neighbours life, really shouldn’t be given responsibility over a goldfish.

So neither you or your family have ever benefited from socialist inspired state education, health care etc at any point in your life either JerryXT?

Not saying you have - for all I know you and BigJ may have gone to Eton, and come from a long line of millionaires - in which case - you would be entirely justified in trashing socialism - as it will have had no historical role in raising the educational and physical well-being of your family. Speaking personally, I would be ashamed to trash a system that had, since the war, improved the education and health care of my hard working, working class family - and which helped to level out (slightly) the huge inequalities which existed in this country prior to 1945 - inequalities which are appearing again in our society.

no, the poshest thing in our house is the dog - he’s pedigree donchaknow :smiley:

There’s a big difference between socialism/communism and what’s practised by the labour party in this country.

Sure, the NHS is a good service, but most people would agree that it’s completely out of control and lost sight of it’s core principles. I remember years ago, an old biddy died because she couldn’t get a bed in hospital for a few nights. The same weekend, a bloke working on some building project had his ear bitten off in a brawl in a pub. The local hospital spent £50,000 on micro-surgery to attach it to his leg while his head healed, then another £50,000 putting it back. There’s no sense applied in the NHS whatsoever.

Asbo’s post on the soldier who has lost his benefits because he can walk 400 yards is another example of state sponsored madness. You’#re right, it’s not socialism, but these processes have been put in place by the party acknowledged as socialist.

Power corrupts …

I’m all for Tesco Value Socialism.

Balance in everything, and leave lots of room for productive aspiration.

I’m not sure where the “working class” is these days. Its not where its was. I’ve a feeling they work in Tescos, and deserve more than they get. Unfortunately too many people who don’t work in Tescos, or anywhere, do far better.

I used to live in a “posh” hostel for fun and easy life for a while … where the career path for a young girl was to have a baby ASAP, then council house granted. Scares me.


Jerry - you’ve hit the nail on the head - to quote you ‘the NHS lost sight of it’s core principles’ - which were socialist - I wouldn’t dispute that for one second - but you can’t put the blame on socialism - you can put the blame on a series of short sighted, incompetent governments - both Tory and Labour - who have mismanaged the NHS over the years.

Getting back to ordinary folks disliking socialism - I still don’t understand the psychology of the ordinary British public who slate socialism - after they and their families have benefited from its key reforms over the last 60 years - if they are so keen on ‘survival of the fittest’ maybe they should go on one of those trace your ancestors shows - if they saw how their ancestors lived for example in Victorian london - a real ‘dog eat dog’ society with no social welfare - they might get a shock.

The fact that demonising socialism shows a shameful lack of respect for a system of thought that attempted to make life fairer and more pleasant for ordinary people is besides the point - whats worse is that it is actively stupid.

Right wing tabloids owned by rich men interested in cutting their and their friends personal taxes seem to have convinced the public that a system that was set up to improve their lives is their enemy.

It’s obvious now that the prosperity of the last 30 years was built on a culture of de-regulation - a financial mirage with no substance - In the mean-time the divide between the rich and the rest of us just keeps growing - all that has happened is that we end up working longer hours for less money - while the rich get richer - which is what it was all designed to do in the first place.

We were conned into allowing this to happen with promises of a ‘trickle down effect’ with the wealth cascading down from the top earners onto the rest of us? Where is it?It was a lie, people in the U.S. and Britain wre conned by Republican and Tory political parties whose primary motivation is to further the interests of the rich - people were fooled - and now they are waking up to it.

If people think that the economy is going to get back to the way it has been over the last ten years they can think again - look at the garage forecourts with all the repoed porsches and range rovers. :w00t:

The chickens are coming home to roost and times will get tougher - and we will realise - like we did at the end of the second world war - when the British public voted in a socialist government - that life is better when we work together for a common purpose which is the peoples well being as a whole - rather than living in a dog eat dog world which has created a culture of envy, greed and selfishness designed to benefit the well off and exploit the rest of us.