You do know that most people that work in banks earn regular salaries? A lot of people on just over minimum wage get laid off if we don’t bail the banks out. Security guards, maintenance staff, receptionists - all of these are subcontracted in most banks, and it’s one of the first places the bank squeezes when it needs money.
Then let’s look at traders - people who make 40k a year base salary and for many, a single mistake means that their career is over. Not their job, their career - they roll the dice on getting it right for long enough to get a couple of bonuses, because if they ever screw up, they have to live on what they’ve made so far until they can find a whole new career.
Oh, and let’s try to remember that 10s of 1000s of people who work in banks in the UK had bugger all to do with the decisions that caused this mess and in many cases even opposed or challenged these decisions. But let’s punish them because they work in the same place as some greedy pricks, right?
Could you honestly make the statement you’ve just made, face to face with over 1000 Londoners who were on waaay less than 40k a year and who’ve just lost their jobs through this mess? If you could, you’re a harder man than me!
The reason we are in this mess is plain and simple:
People borrowed more than they should have simply because they were allowed. Just because a bank/credit card company gives u money does not mean u should take it. Simple. These people didnt plan any contginecy should they loose their job, intrest rates go up…etc…instead they borrowed and spent more money they didnt have. Now they complain they cant borrow money to feed their family. Touch sh*t I say. Now people like me who live within their means and save are not gaining as much in our savings (less than inflation i.e. im loosing value technically).
The banks shouldnt of lent so much to these people as they clearly cant plan for a rainy day.
Ive seen countless articles and programs about how people have managed to rack up thousand of debt through credit cards. why did the banks keep lending to these people?
That is why the economy is screwed. The government is just prolonging the pain with all these policies and further dropping the value of the £.
So dont just blame bankers. How about blame every1 for being generally irresponsible.
And back to the topic at hand, no jaguar should go down if they cant adapt to tough market conditions…so should GM. I bet you Toyota or Honda (who are seeing decreased sales too) won’t go bust nor even ask for a goverment bailout from Japan.
To be fair ,I think he is talking about the decision makers…Plenty of people who are affected , whilst working for the banks, can not be termed Bankers…secretaries , cleaners , security etc etc . I feel for those people and in no way can they be blamed.
I cannot feel sorry for the trader… and I think you might be looking at it the wrong way…Yes, they roll the dice and take chances to get their bonus BUT they back it with our money and ,in many cases , have left some people without their life savings because they got it wrong. A lot of these people (unlike your traders) are not able to find a new career due to age etc. Their life is ruined by, to quote yourself " some greedy pricks" and you want sympathy for them??? Not in my house my friend–
+1 how many of you have credit cards you can’t pay, or loans you are now having trouble paying, your just as much to blame…
Jaguar have been in trouble for many years now, some of that is down to the cost of wages in this country and the Unions (remember British Leyland/Rover). Ford do not build any of their models in this country because of that. I agree however that they had their chance and also had Tata buy them so it should be down to Tata to raise the money required to get them out of trouble. Yes there will be thousands of jobs go but its not been a secret that they have been in trouble, and if the gov do bail them out then where do they stop and why not help Woolworths…
Nice one dude. May re-read my post and get to know me before insulting.
I didn’t say that the Brits are bad engineers, I said they have been terrible at engineering cars. I know because I own one.
I own a 10 year old Rover and you know what? It needs a new shell. It’s that f**king terrible. It’s got holes the size of my fist. Compare that to my friends 10 year old Audi and his looks new. That’s nothing to do with the design, but it’s to do with how it’s been engineered and put together. Did nobody think to put rust proofing in place when they engineer the manufacturing process? Did nobody think to engineer the shell so it doesn’t hold buckets of water between the panels?
Another example. Rover designed the K-series engine. It was a brilliant design, way ahead of its time. Light, compact engine with good power output and good efficiency. When they engineered it, why did nobody think of the fact that if you put the thermostat and water valve on the engine that you’ll have ice cold water pooring in a very hot aluminium block, which is a disaster waiting to happen? Good luck finding a 100k miles k-series engine that hasn’t had a head gasket blown! And go ahead and try find a jap or german engine of the same mileage and age that had a failure like that. It’s a shame, because it was a brilliant engine.
The reason why there’s no British mainstream car manufacturers left is because they produced inferior cars that nobody wanted to buy. Full stop. No way you can deny that. How many “late” Rovers do you see when you go abroad? Have you ever seen a Rover 25 outside this country? They’re rare because nobody wanted to buy them. You explain me the reason for that!
And it is a shame because some of the greatest concepts and designs have come out of this country.
And the same hold true for Jag as far as I can see. Great looking cars (apart from the current saloon that looks like an old Mondeo), really great concepts. Crazy cars,. we love it. But why are they ever so slightly less inferior to their German equivalents in terms of how well they perform, how well they’re built etc.
Get a German to engineer a British designed Jag and I think you’d have a brilliant car.
no offence whistler but i’m afraid you clearly dont know anything about trading. they are not gambling with ‘your money’. you’re confusing proprietory trading with the fund management. ‘your money’ is managed by specifically controlled rules for pension funds and mutual funds. they are heavily limited in the quality of the securities they can buy, what risky assets they are allowed to make part of the portfolio and in what porportions. There are rules about deposits at banks, reserves banks have to keep etc
prop traders will be at their desks at 6am and work through to the evening with no breaks under extreme pressure. they are obliged to manage their risk with hedging as part of the controls of the bank. in most cases whilst poor trades would be costly to us if it were our money, the damage to the firm is relatively minimal, but as mentioned they dont get many strikes before they’re out of a seat. this can be as simple as mishearing a shouted order. are you under the impression there are lots of similar jobs out there at the moment?
i’m not looking to make this a big economical debate (and i’m oversimplifying in cases on this stuff) but the lack of understanding and sensationalism of the predicament we’re in is frightening. everyone wants to blame other people, particularly investment banks. fundamentally its mostly ‘our’ fault where by ‘our’ i mean people in developed nations (particularly the US) that have borrowed way more than is sensible in terms of housing loans or credit cards. Lending isn’t ‘free money’ but far too many people treat it as such. no one was complaining when they could get a mortgage or an additional buy to let deal. to then turn around and say its not their fault, the bank should have known they couldn’t afford it is retarded. to ignore questions like ‘what if the interest rate goes up’, ‘what if i lose my job’ or ‘what if i cant rent the 2nd flat out’ is their own fault.
I will admit I know little or nothing about most of the financial issues here…It’s not really my thing
But I’m slightly confused because for years companies and banks have been saying they want less regulation and interference, but as soon as it all goes a bit tit’s up because people have been living beyong their means then they are begging for financial help… with my (i.e the taxpayers) money…
Also no one cared much about Rover when they went bust…with all the heartache it caused their work force…
But like I said I don’t know much about the financial world…I go all glassy eyed when people start explaining corporate finance to me:)
I apologise if I insulted you…not intended.Old Rovers (BL products and series 3 Jags of the late 70’s and early 80’s) were terrible but not because of the engineers…rather because the bean counters wouldn’t allow proper development. The Stag is a classic example…fabulous engine but under developed…The original thread was about Jaguars which are a bit more sought after than Rovers…although if I had to choose between an X-Type or a Rover 75 I’d go for the Rover every time:)Most of that is in the past and it must be almost impossible to buy a bad car these days…I had to drive a Hyundai Accent diesel for a month recently and was fully prepared to hate it…In the end I was sorry to see it go as it did exactly what it said on the box…Again, sorry for the throw away comment in my last post…
Quite happy to concede that but are you saying that no individuals are involved or affected??..I didn’t borrow…I put money in various places and got my balls kicked good and hard…I may not know (as you say) whose “fault” it is but it sure isn’t mine and it’s my money that has gone…End of:)Over borrowing and over lending is another matter…:w00t:
sorry to hear that, defo tough times. my career change has been slightly kicked in the ass by the markets too and am trying not to think about the money i’ve lost. sucks big ballsnot sure how best to answer the first question. lots of individuals have been affected by the markets, but not due to any one trader really. most traders dont actually trade for themselves, they make markets by offering prices for buying and selling for customers (pension funds, hedgefunds, wealthy individuals etc). the people responsible for packaging, securitising and rating subprime US bonds have a few questions to answer tho…
In a previous life I was design manager and part owner of a company that was a first tier supplier to Rover Cars.
If the government had stepped in to help Rover when they were in trouble, I’d never be in the job I now love doing and doubt I’d have found LB as I had no spare time to trawl motorbike sites on the net;)
So basically the government did me a great favour in turning their backs on the Pheonix;):D:D:D
