Request for support: consultation to alter flight stacking of aeroplanes over residential areas in London

This petition has been triggered with the local papers being involved regarding the needless stacking of aeroplanes above residential areas.

Before, aeroplanes used to glide in and out of airports. Now they stack in drifts around London hovering and creating a lot of noise especially for residents who live high up. They are also flying way lower too.

Here’s the petition:

Please note it doesn’t alter times or frequencies of flights: all the petition request is for, is for a review to remove this unpleasant drone and humming of aeroplanes over homes.


Online petitions aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, generally.

Why not do this on the government petition site? At least that one can require some sort of response.

This one has already reached 300+ from 100 posts less than 2 days ago.

The government site is worthwhile, however you’ll find that the majority of people who might support a worthwhile cause, quickly back down as soon as they have to do more than write their name and signature.

That’s the great thing about the petitions: once they reach a threshold of 1000 signatures, then the issue has to be raised legally: a government response is usually of the same dismissive tone and much more labour intensive for individuals. If we all filled in 10 signatures each for 10 worthy causes; like banning numberplate-free trikes; banning bendy buses; introducing compulsory bicycle awareness for car drivers; etc, we can achieve a lot more, than spending the same amount of time drafting a single letter to one government body with its own authority to dismiss complaints.

That’s the reason I support petitions…

pretty sure that’s only for ones on the government website.

Yeah, the government need pay or 38degrees or any other petition site any more heed than any ranty blog or twitter status. The only one where they need to do anything at all is the one on the site.

Are there any 38degrees petitions that have directly lead to action from government?

Yes I can understand how easy it is to become sceptical in a democracy (but look at the alternatives …)

Here you go:

Of the epetitions which reach a critical threshold, the local MP is then armed with sufficient weight behind him to argue a cause in parliament.
They require responses: you can filter for the completed ones; this list stands for the current ones, some of which are still awaiting responses.

100,000 signatures required for a statutory parliamentary response. London’s population is vast compared to this: inertia however, is even greater.

reports that 99.9% of petitions fail because of sceptical bods; learned helplessness; apathy, relying on others. This is the kind of social breakdown which makes it important to use social media to flag up.

Unfortunately even motorcycle interest related petitions are destined to fail because of the same reasons. Then, our country becomes the kind of place no one wishes to be, however we get what we deserve through inaction.

Another reason not to trust the government petitions:

You still believe we live in a democracy? :w00t:

This all seems to be about the apparent usefulness of the petittions. I was asking if 38degrees ones are ever pointful.

I’m not at all advocating complete apathy. I just don’t see the point in petitioning the government on any site other than the site - I don’t understand why someone who wishes to create a petition that they intend to use to persuade government would not use the one specifically created for doing that. And, similarly, I don’t understand why anyone would bother signing such a petition.

You know they have to stack right? They don’t do it to p*ss us off (even though it feels like it!) It’s the way they manage the numbers coming in. So many planes are coming in / taking off - that the only safe way to do it is to stack them, so they can be called in to land in a controlled manner.

As for the democracy thing - if you get over 100k signatures, the govt has to consider a debate. The Hillsborough Justice Campaign got such a full debate and raised the public profile of the fight for the full disclosure of all documents. Since then, we now have new inquests, criminal investigations against the police for the deaths and the same for their criminal cover up.

None of this has been fast (Expect at least 3 more years to conclude all the prosecutions) but the e-petition did play a key role in the process. (Along side the many aspects of the campaigns highlighting the conduct of the SYP and WMP)

One reason for stacking is that London’s airports are all running at capacity. Suggest that you build a new airport, or add capacity to an existing one and people start petitions to stop it happening.

I completely agree, if you bought your house before the airport was there. If however you’ve benefited from the cheaper cost of housing around the flight path then I put you in the same category as:

  • people who complain about flooding when buying a cheap house in a flood plain;
  • people who complain about noise when buying a cheap house next to a motorway;
  • people who complain about damage when buying a cheap wooden property in an area known as “Tornado Alley”.

None of these. The problem with us, is that we are behind technological drives: we still don’t get it, that there are things we can change - like the flight path stackings, without interfering with air quality/noise pollution of areas.

For example - the south east of London is the most affected area due to the flight stacking: this is not due to the increased numbers of flights: it’s due to the lack of equity in planning: rather than concentrate the stacks around Heathrow, areas away from Heathrow are being affected: the City airport does not have as many stacks as Heathrow, and even if it did, positioning them in west London to stack before landing in the east London City airport is extreme.

Similarly Gatwick airport, does not have this stacking issue affecting such diverse areas of London: it is solely down to the poor management at Heathrow, which can alter, without any detriment to the number of flights.

Here’s what the consultation petition argues for:

almost 450 signatures for support to alter the unwanted noise!

Half way there!

If you live south of the river, please look at the petition to support it to get rid of the meaningless crossing of Heathrow aircraft over south east London:

The City airport is already trying to alter its aircraft over south east London in a different proposal>!

What exactly do you mean by “the issue has to be raised legally”? There is no law saying that if you get 1000 people on a petition then someone has to take any notice!

Also, bear in mind that stacking is the mechanism employed by the ATC to provide safe aircraft movements. The fundamental problem, as Julian said, is that the airports are running at capacity – if you want less stacking, support a third runway or another airport.

I thought you needed 100,000 before debate was considered ?

Noisy planes eh? I know, I can’t sleep at night, especially with those new Airbus A380s being some of the quietest commercial aircraft ever manufactured. And what with that and the noise from the tube that you can hear every 3 minutes in most houses in central London. Then there’s the thunder and lightning every so often. When will it end?

Jesus if people want peace and quiet move to the Cotswolds. It’s like the residents surrounding Heathrow complaining about noise pollution from planes which is probably why they can afford to live there in the first place. Are we a nation of whiners?..actually don’t answer that.

Which bit of “support”, not “rubbish condescendingly” did you both misunderstand???

Hmm…some of you really are attached to aeroplanes. They aren’t motorcycles you know :smiley:

Both of you might need to study London geography better: Heathrow is in the west of London: the stacks affect the south east borough of Lewisham in the south east - the most in fact; into Dulwich, Brockley, Crofton Park and in fact…45 miles (via the M25) away from Heathrow. Up to 40 planes an hour, continuous through the day. Ever tried taking a sunset photo from Greenwich without silly planes in the way?!

Gatwick does not stack over the north of London; the City airport does not stack over Heathrow. Heathrow stacks can be distributed with guidance technology, over Middlesex, Ruislip and Harrow: currently these boroughs have nothing like 40planes an hour at all.

I guess if you actually read the petition implications and understood, that when a new airport at Southend or west Kent does come, then stacking of those planes will be inevitable in the south east. Currently, there is no equality in concentrating stacking in the opposite borough’s airspace.

Stacking over south eastern London boroughs, also some of the greenest spaces in London is not inevitable due to increased air traffic: sooner or later, the dangers of stacking collisions due to the intensification of stacking in localised boroughs will create a national air disaster before people wake up to the cattle herd mentality that you can’t do anything.

That’s all :wink:

Thanks for those who did support - over 450 now!

So they could do something wild and crazy like build a new airport in the Thames Estuary so planes could stack over the sea, but that would be too ambitious and might upset a few grass hoppers. My perspective is I’ve lived under a flight path my entire life both here and abroad. The noise isn’t really a problem unless you are in the immediate vicinity of an airport. With regards to the Cotswolds I suppose that is noisy at the weekend when we all go past on our bikes. I’m sure they probably have an online petition too, perhaps I’ll sign that.

Governments come and go
The real power never stops controlling us
The people have the power but don’t have the Intelligence of how to use it