Mugabi and the white african

Didn’t you read down far enough to the bit that said I don’t condone it, this is the 3rd time I’ve typed it now.

2 wrongs never make a right and like I said, I’m glad they got away with eachother, and their lives because in that situation they could have been killed/injured purely based on their appearance with no consideration about where they were born or what they’ve put into the community.

I’m in agreement with you here Shane. Racism and predjudice exists in all forms and is disgusting. I’ve had the misfortune of experiencing it from white people for my skin being too dark and black people for my skin being too light. I was actually got out of a car at gunpoint in West Africa by the local police for being from ‘white mans country’ and not paying above the going rate for being stopped and let go for no reason.

I knew of a farmer in Zimbabwe, who took a big chunk of the bush and developed it into a tobacco farm. It was build up into a thriving community and it have a village with water and electricity, a school, and benefits of a doctor once a month.

It was both profitable and a success community supporting about 200 people.

A long came a narrow minded right wing dictator, whose only cause was himself and those that supported him. Anyone who has gotten in his way has been demonized and murdered and had there possessions taken from them. Are we taking Mugabe or Hitler?

Well the farm was taken off them, and redistributed to Mugabe supporters. Because of the split of the land into small holdings, no took take of the dam that provided the irrigation water to make the farm successful.

Ten years on, no one lives on the land any more.

This isn’t a black or white, native or colonial issue. It is the issue of a mad man, insane on power and the belief of his own divine right. There are several tribes/clans/people that were native to the area that is now Zimbabwe, and they are heavy persecuted as well.

He was taken a country that was a massive net exporter of farm produce to a country dependent on foreign aid. The same is beginning to happen in South Africa as well.

Is there a solution to the problem? Well there is certainly no simple solution. Education that is the bed rock of society and civilisation seems to gone as it costs to much money. The rule of the gun is easier and simple.

Excuse my ignorance, I take it this is tonight?? What channel and time please?

need to get ‘er’ indoors to record it…:stuck_out_tongue:

more 4 …22:00 mate.

smiled:D.

A danger that perhaps we are tarring 50+ countries and 650+million people with the same brush?

And yet, I can’t think of too many exceptions to the statement :slight_smile: Having said that, I can’t blame colonialism - many countries who got out from under colonial rule seem to do Ok. Africa just refuses to think about tomorrow.

Yeah, they do ok. Cyprus is still an occupied country. The indigenous folk of the Americas and Australasia seem cool. Kashmir is fine. Palestine/Israel is all good. Africa was a bit dodgy for a while. Everyone seems to be getting along…

Don’t get me wrong, the ongoing governance of many parts of the world have a lot to answer for.

World peace.

Hey - KS - let’s see how long it will take before the U.S. becomes a ‘dysfunctional shithole’ after China and India really get going - and start dictating the terms of trade and hogging vital resources for themselves. After that they will probably start interfering with your government using various techniques - from bribing your elite politicians and businessman to further their economic penetration, to using intelligence services to destabilise your political system, and possibly a few black flag operations to kick off some regional conflicts so as to be able to prise you out of your naval and air bases.The relative tranquility and liberal ambience of developed countries is often a function of their superior economic relationship with the rest of the world - which fosters a climate in which liberal and rational concepts of government and society take root. This is good. But strip away the economic advantages and life will start to get cruder. This is something we are going to witness this century as economic power shifts from west to east.

Lots of exceptions, if people care to open their eyes. Ever been to Malawi, Zanzibar, Ghana, Tanzania, Cape Town…these places all function and are some of the most beautiful places in the world :slight_smile:

I think lots of people seem to equate poverty to a “dysfunctioning” place or indeed to “shitholes” - I would accept large parts of Africa are poor, but it is not the same thing at all - imho :slight_smile:

From your list, I’ve been to Ghana, Malawi, Tanzania and Cape Town (well, most of south africa). They might be beautiful, but they’re still shitholes. From the rampant corruption and bribery required to survive in Ghana and the astronomically high murder rates in Cape Town, I’d not nominate any of them as models of stability or progress. I’ve also been to most of the countries in North West Africa, and I never want to go back.

Then I take it we will have to differ in our opinions as to what defines a shithole :slight_smile: though I quite agree they are not models of progress sadly. Lake Malawi, a sun setting over the Indian Ocean from Zanzibar, the Boab valley Tanzania, Killamanjero (when you get a view) - these are awesome places and sights imho :slight_smile:

As for the corruption…British MPs fiddling expenses, flipping houses, employing their family members, lining up directorships etc. British Police booking a full days overtime for an hours work. British lawyers ripping off miners with illnesses. The UK hospitality industry that survives on the “wining and dining” of procurement managers…I’m defo not saying there isn’t corruption in Africa, of course there is. But we conveniently forget some on our own doorstep sometimes :stuck_out_tongue:

I do not disagree with a single word of this…not one word. We in the West DO stack the deck in our favor…and the accounting for those transgressions is rapidly approaching…it is clear that the West has hit it’s apogee…and is in decline. Morally…politically…industrious-nessly (I just made that word up for lack of something better…but…the point is spot on…we aren’t willing to work hard anymore…we’re collectively resting on the laurels of our predecessors)…power IS shifting to the East.China could cripple the US TOMORROW if they chose to…all they would need to do is stop buying our debt…and the entire house of cards that is the US economic system would come crashing down around our heads. Of course, the collateral damage would destory or damage the entire world economy…but…the risk that it could happen tomorrow is there.

I couldn’t agree more! We’re so quick to judge, and yes, we live in relative luxury in comparison, but we still have stark similarities in terms of corruption right here in the UK! The difference I guess is that we have far greater freedom of press and accountability. Doesn’t mean people won’t try swindle the system!

I watched this with my mother and we were utterly utterly heartbroken. I grew up in Zambia, and there were rumblings of similar events happening there, but they were quickly quashed (for reasons that my father would know if he were still alive) and it was frightening. My mother told me things I never knew after watching this. I thought that Ben Freeth and his family were absolute paragons of moral virtue. The irony is that bugger all has happened since and they seem to be pushing water uphill.

All I’ll say is, for the limited amount of understanding I have and for whatever ignorance I may be demonstrating, Mugabe needs a bullet in the back of the head!

We should go out for a beer - in a spirit of international understanding! :wink: :smiley:

I can’t argue on a single thing there. I reckon 90% of all of the most awesome sights I’ve seen and experiences I have had have been on the African continent. But sadly, many of those are offset by experiences of extreme violence and loss, and that taints my memories :frowning: I guess it all depends on what you’re there to do, and what happens while you’re there.

The big plus is that here, I can risk getting involved and making a noise about the corruption and issues without worrying too much about ending up dead in a ditch, although I’m not sure I’d go walking in the woods after embarrassing the government. I never forget, but I’d rather be in a place where I have a chance of making a difference without great risk of personal injury or death.

f’kin right D.Kelly RIP. . . :ermm:

Agreed…first round on me. :smiley:

Thanks KS! The world always seems less complicated after a few beers! ;):stuck_out_tongue: