Motorcycles in bicycle lanes

Nature Girl
I do exactly the same as you at the Southward Bridge Junction, never had a problem, but happy to have it out with the blighters if they want to start.

+1 - do both as well and anyone who uses the ‘pay road tax’ assertion is just a twat. Besides the fact it’s vehicle excise duty and not a road tax, most cyclists probably have another vehicle / pay tax, and following that ‘you get what you pay for logic’ my 'blade should defer to the Range Rover Sport who cuts me up…

Just to play Devil’s advocate here - Fuel Tax is possibly more relevant to the argument than ‘Road Tax’.

Either way, the anti-cyclist stuff’s just dull. There’s twats in lycra like there’s twats in leather.

banman …"Its like the broken hashed areas in the centre of the road. Your not supposed to use them for overtaking the flow of traffic… "

I thought those hatched areas in the middle of the road, well, the ones with dotted edges, were motorcycle lanes.

Been using them for years

Lol, I was told both by my instructor and examiner to just treat them as a normal lane if you needed to make progress.

Hashed marks in the centre of the road bounded by a broken line can be used to make progress, but the area is hashed to help keep traffic apart. If you have a collision as a result of using it, it will count against you when assessing blame for the accident.

Areas with hashes or chevrons bounded by solid lines are so marked because it is dangerous for traffic to mix at that point (often at the start and end of motorway slip roads or on bends for example) and it is a specific offence to cross the white line. The police take breaches very seriously.

ENFORCEMENT (OVERZEALOUS AND SELECTIVE APPROACH IN MY VIEW) OF BOX FOR CYCLISTS IN FRONT OF TRAFFIC LIGHTS (aka ASL - advanced stop lines)

This morning at the corner of Holbourn Viaduct and Giltspur St (photo below) I had filtered down to the right of traffic and pulled in with the majority of my bike encroaching into the ASL (safer to be slightly in front of and seen by the traffic queueing). There was a police operation in place to enforce the ASL (which i noticed and probably should have immediately tried to walk backwards) but in any event they got a photo of me as evidence. Up shot is 3 points, £60 and late for work given the usual check for insurance, priors, stolen bikes etc.

What i was very surprised and upset about was the severity of the penalty and the Police’s approach for what I believe is still a mis-understood and very infrequently enforced area of traffic regulation.

Anyway, thought it was worth posting to warn others that they have, at least based on today, started to crack down on this so that others are not caught out.

Secondly, if anyone is a lawyer or has any views on whether such an approach is legal / constitutional? e.g. the penalty doesn’t seem proportional to the offence and having to then watch 3 other vehicles go over the line on my short ride from the incident to work they don’t seem to enforcing the law in a consistent manner. On a personal level, I don’t think there is much I can do (but would gratefully accept any ideas). On a community level is there anything else i should be doing to encourage what might be a better approach to enforcement by the police? I find it very odd that they didn’t do a round of warnings / campaigning before the clampdown. Are there any public bodies I should write to? Had I been speeding then there would be a good chance I could avoid points with speeding awareness. Is there a traffic rules and cyclist awareness course? should there be given this is an area I think is less well understood.

Thats really hard luck Frustrated. I knew it was an offence but didnt realise it was endorsable. Figured just a fine if caught.
Cant help with your predicament, although im sure somebody else can. Seems the only excuse is if you crossed the first line whilst the light is amber.
Highway code rule here:
https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/road-junctions-170-to-183

The Transport Reseach Laboratories did a study a couple of years back about Motorcyclists and LYCRA® Louts sharing the Advanced stop line box, until they change the rules unfortunately it’s against the law. If they’re doing a specific operation to target that then there’s little getting away with it sadly. I’ve only heard of a handful of people ever get their collar felt for it, usually a “Don’t do it again” lecture. Crossing that first stop line on a red is in the eyes of the law jumping a red light.

Ditto Niteowl’s post, that seems pretty unjust.

I ride my bicycle 3-4 times a week and motorbike the other days…I have no problem with motorbikes going in the cycle lane once they are sensible and in three months of cycling I’ve only had to shout at one motorbike who went past at speed way too close to me.

I can tell you from what I have seen they are lot more cyclists doing stupid things and I dont include breaking red lights in that. I am talking about totally unaware of their surroundings and the biggest failure is the changing of lanes without doing a lifesaver.

Ok we can’t go into the cyclists box and we can’t ride in the small cycle lane by the kerb…

So…

What if the road is wide enough for only one vehicle at the traffic lights and we want to turn left.

There is a line of traffic queuing so we overtake on the right tick and come up level with the car at the front stopping before the first white line tick

The cars are nose to tail so we can’t squeeze between them to get in the left position to turn left…even if we could we would enter the cycle lane cross

WTF now? Do I indicate left and hope the guy in the car behind me waits until I cross in front of him - frustrating for him and dangerous…

or do I break the law and whilst lights are still red do I enter the cyclists box cross and either straddle it diagonally waiting for green or move into the cycle lane bit cross

I suppose the only LEGAL answer would be to wait in line with the other traffic as if I was a Transit Van or summat???

Ross

Had heard that enforcement of the ASL was coming in, from the coppers on a recent BikeSare course. Tricky one, as I certainly feel safer being in front of the first car/lorry after filtering (perfectly legally) upto a junction, rather than being stuck beside it when the lights go green.

Another similarly rule in the Highway code that not so well known, is your no supposed to filter past the lead car in a queue at a pedestrian crossing/zig zag area:-

191You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.
Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 18, 20 & 24, RTRA sect 25(5) & TSRGD regs 10, 27 & 28

The BikeSafe coppers also mentioned how they often enforce people going the wrong side of a keep left bollard, in particularly mentioning the Highway as a common spot they see it.

I aslo cycle and think sharing is fine, frankly they should have mbikes to the right of the box and cyclists to the left.

When i did bikesafe a few years ago and said frankly i want to get in front to be visible then ride off they indicated they could say that was ok but they weren’t going to say they disagreed with my logic. The other annoyance is that this spot is two mins walk from their police station. so it is the first junction they can go and enforce.

They should be:

  • Posting on forums, emailing the organisers to get the word out.
  • Putting signs and photos up saying that it is 3 points and £60 with a clampdown coming in X.
  • Doing a few weeks of standing there telling people off

Then they should enforce - if they want to maintain a good relationship with generally good citizens who didn’t have any points on their license and pay their taxes etc.

Anyway - had better get down there with the paper license tomorrow.

^^ you can’t segregate push/motorbikes in an ASL…what if one is turning left 'n the other is turning right :smiley:

I think it’s fine as it is - seems to work in London, and both push/motor bikes can get in front of 4 wheeled vehicles which is the main objective as far as I’m concerned.

I cycle mostly, and don’t have a problem sharing it, although I’d rather have motorbikes get to the front of the ASL, I’ve seen a fair few accounts of motorbikes/scoots not going to the front, which then blocks it for other users. :crazy:

Fed up of whoever’s making up these rules though, they seem to lack common sense. Not letting bikes filter to the front is either going to end up causing more congestion, or it’s going to make filtering more dangerous for bikers.

Well whatever - it’s a good warning.

Plod has obviously been told to target ASL’s (and ignore people texting???) so…

Just keep out of them for the next 2 weeks :slight_smile:

+1

Treat the ASL like the stop line at a red light - simple.

I don’t see big groups of motorbikes stopped over the front of the stop line yet pretty much every ASL on my commute has a bunch of bikers in front of it - it can be a bit frustrating as a cyclist that the safety buffer zone to stop myopic drivers turning left over the top of you is full of motorbikes who could have planned ahead a bit and avoided it. Having said that, it’s by no means the biggest hazard on my commute and while I think some enforcement is a good thing, the fine & points you got seems harsh.

Out of interest, what was the offence? I seem to remember there being some disagreement about what exactly you could be charged with.

Not stopping at the advanced stop line is the same offence as not stopping for a red light - the code used will affect future insurance premiums. I suggest you read the highway code. it is specific - a red light means stop at the first line.

Filter alongside the front vehicle and accelerate smoothly to get in front of it when the light is green (taking care to pass it only after it has committed itself to not turning across your path). If you see some bike coppers not on blue light riding in traffic, take the trouble of following them and seeing how they ride. It is quite informative on how to make progress safely and legally. They do use broken line cycle lanes BTW, but with care and only to pass other vehicles safely without coming into conflict with cyclists.

I’ve seen quite a number of cyclists shouting abuse at anyone and everyone over the years for whatever infraction or perceived infraction of their ‘cyclists rights’ has taken place, but in the rare cases where the other party has invited aforementioned cyclist to pull over to ‘discuss’ it, I’ve yet to see a cyclist take up the offer :smiley:

Has always worried me when doing bus & coach work though, that it’s very easy to end up in the ‘cyclist’s box’ at traffic lights. Bus & coach drivers can’t take the risk of running a red, but can’t brake too hard either when there may be elderly passengers standing up, or mothers with young kids or buggies, particularly when some vehicles have vastly differing braking characteristics which can take time to get a feel for. Encroaching into the cyclists box is sometimes necessary. Never been pulled for it yet, but had some young female copper glaring at me a fortnight ago for it. No-win situation really… get nabbed for entering the box or send some vulnerable passenger flying. A little bit of give and take on the roads is all that’s required, but that’s something that is in short supply in London, whereas there’s no shortage of arseholes waiting to complain or issue a ticket.