Terrorism has nothing to do with religion. It doesn’t matter what religion it is, no religion I know or have heard of preaches hate. Fanatics (of any religion) warp various religions to suit their agenda.
Seriously anyone that thinks this is somehow an affront to the victims of the terrorists that caused 9/11 is just plain ignorant in my opinion. “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” Richard Dawkins.
I don’t think the IRA is a fair comparison. While I know there was/is sectarian violence I never really viewed the IRA as a religious organisation, the IRA was about freedom for Ireland…not the pushing of a religious agenda.
Al Queeda isn’t about the freedom of a country, rather it is about a religious agenda.
I would put it like this to make the comparison fair.
Do you think that the IRA should be able to build a community centre in Deal and do you think that uproar over such a proposed site would be unfair?
Don’t get me wrong, I am not against the building of the Mosque, but I do understand some of the anger and some of the objections, especially those objections that suggest that it would be insensitive and would be used as a emblem of victory by some.
That doesn’t make me opposed to the building, but I do think the playing of all those opposed to it by some of the liberal press in America as purely based on racism or intolerance to be a little annoying.
It is no better than when the right-wing press in America played any opposition to George W Bush as unpatriotic.
I think it makes it easier to understand. It isn’t fair because Islam isn’t a terrorist organisation.
I think it would be odd to pretend that Islam hasn’t been co-opted by terrorist organisations and therefore to ignore the impact that Islamic emblems would have.
I would refer you to the Union Jack which has been co-opted in this country by Far right racist groups, and how it would be odd to ignore the impact that such an emblem would have in sensitive areas, that doesn’t mean you bow to those sensitivities but it would be wrong to ignore them or pretend they didn’t exist or to paint the people with those sensitivities as being intolerant.
I have tried my hardest to see this from your point of view, but I’m struggling to get my head that far up my arse! :w00t:
Do you honestly believe what you have said, or are you just trying to be argumentative?
I only ask because the last time I checked the IRA (in it’s many forms and splinters groups) is definitely a religiously motivated group! I’m pretty sure that the whole “Freedom for Ireland” conflict (which has been going on for a good few hundred years now) is all about the Catholic Irish wanting the Protestant Irish out of what they see as their country, and an end to British Rule. Of course, I could have gotten the whole thing wrong and actually dreamed about the two and a half years I spent over there trying to prevent these people from killing each other for coming from the wrong area and going to the wrong type of church! :Whistling:
I’m pretty sure the people of Northern Ireland would be a little upset if they heard your opinion that it’s not about religion.
While you may argue that the IRA was against protestant Irish…they were not against protestants in general.
Therefore I would argue that the “Irish” aspect of that fight was at least as important as the religious aspect of it.
There is no other aspect to the fight with AQ other then religion.
Therefore any comparison is flawed.
Also, can you find a single example of the IRA saying they had committed some atrocity in the name of the Catholic Church? Cause I really don’t remember that ever happening…now I could be wrong, not like I am irish/anglo war historian, but I think I might have remembered it.
Also don’t remember the IRA engaging in a holy war, which has been called for by AQ on many occasions.
This was brought up initially as an example due to the fact that the PIRA did have a religious swing to it as well. You (in your first quote above) have said that you didn’t view the pushing of a religious agenda as a part of it and now you are saying that the ‘fight’ as well as being “Irish” was just as important to the religious aspect of it !
:doze:
No one is saying the nationality doesn’t play a part in it, no one is saying that all IRA members are Catholic.
I said…This organisation is not religious like this organisation is…
You then came along and said…oh so it isn’t religious then…totally misrepresenting what I said or, at the very least, misunderstanding.
I have shown that the IRA are not similar enough to Al Qaeda to make the comparison you were making. That is the end of that part of the debate. You want to move on, then do so, or linger here trying to reclaim some of what you think you have lost.
I made a comparison, yes it is not exactly the same but it is similiar. Al Qaeda are Muslim and PIRA are very much Catholic. All I am stating is that on both sides that both religions should not be lambasted for being linked to terrorist organisations. Ie - People should not object to a Muslim centre being opened near the site of a terrorist atrocity in the same way thet I know people should not and probably would not object to a Catholic community centre being opend near a PIRA terrorist atrocity.
You clearly stated that “I never really viewed the IRA as a religious organisation, the IRA was about freedom for Ireland…not the pushing of a religious agenda.” you then backtracked and stated “Therefore I would argue that the “Irish” aspect of that fight was at least as important as the religious aspect of it.”
So you have not being saying the same thing throughout this ‘off topic’ twist to the thread as can be seen above. :doze:
I am not going to engage you on your nit picking because you have decided to cut up a sentence I wrote…that didn’t even have punctuation at the point you cut it, you just decided you didn’t like the beginning of the sentence.
Your comparison doesn’t work and you have offered no reason to suggest it does. The PIRA is not exclusively Catholic, doesn’t commit atrocities in the name of the Catholic Church and has not called for a Holy War.
How is that anything like Al Qaeda which is exclusively Muslim, does commit atrocities in the name of Islam, and has called for a Holy War?
There is little to compare the two, other then the fact that they have both used terrorism. That is where the comparison ends.
Now move the debate along, show how they are so similar that it is fair to compare them or accept that they are not.
