Speed is the same with a dual carriageway that's 2 lanes or more. However with the motorway there is a sense of being trapped there, that you can't get off for miles. This can terrify new drivers.
Serrisan
How is that different to a major dual carriageway though, are the junctions are closer together on them? Even though, most do not have hard shoulders like a motorway so surely you will feel more trapped on a big A-road with nowhere safe to stop until you reach the next parking place.
Like you though, I find big dual carriageways the easiest and safest. With my wee 125 I was always scared of the idea of them so had to build up my confidence before tentatively going on one. But the experience was totally different. You get wide lanes, on wide roads giving great visibility, usually with shallower bends, and where everyone can simply change lane to safely pass. It was lovely compared to a single lane road where I could start to feel intimidated if a queue formed behind me because I was holding up traffic, and even if not people would still overtake in a variety of reckless ways, whilst cars would emerge from blind corners straddling the centre line. At times you can end up spending as much time watching your mirrors as the road ahead on them.
I get the point about new drivers being afraid of the speed of traffic, but as BRS says that is all something that can already be learned on a dual carriageways, and without the legal requirement for dual control cars or even trained instructors. Maybe lessons on them should be required on such roads, but singling out motorways just seems a double standard.
Driving on motorways is part of the UK experience, therefore it should be part of the UK driving tuition and examination experience. As should: parallel parking, parking in tight car park spaces, night driving. I'd also love to see more awareness of other road users being part of the test, ideally a requirement to ride a motor scooter in traffic for a specified time.
Michael748
Then would you also add a bicycle, bus & mobility scooter test as well? Remember 'road users' is everyone. Don't get me wrong, I wish everyone knew had to ride a bike and how it felt to be on a bike with cars around you but you can't force them to take a test for something they have no interest in and will never do... just like you will never catch me riding a bicycle on the road through london.
About the test… it has to cater to everyone, not just those of us in the capital. How can you do a test for a motorway, when the closest one is over 45mins-1hr away in some places?(arguably even from central london on a bad day!).
Speed is the same with a dual carriageway that's 2 lanes or more. However with the motorway there is a sense of being trapped there, that you can't get off for miles. This can terrify new drivers.
Serrisan
How is that different to a major dual carriageway though, are the junctions are closer together on them? Even though, most do not have hard shoulders like a motorway so surely you will feel more trapped on a big A-road with nowhere safe to stop until you reach the next parking place.
Michael
I have no idea - it’s probably a perception. However, I do think that motorways will have (on average) bigger gaps between junctions and turn off points. So you have to be paying a bit more attention as the wrong exit could be quite far away!
Also with two lanes you only have two options (fast and slow)… the more lanes, the more complexity, the more the brain freaks out (possible, not scientifically researched!)… some people can deal with it instinctively, some people can learn to, and some can never process it that well (again, just my opinion with no peer reviewed research). I’ve noticed it in my mother who was fine as I was growing up and now she hates it as she’s got older (she would still drive in them quite competently). She’s better on a dual carriageway for some reason and she’s fine in the madness that is central Athens - go figure…
They should allow it and enforce it as in the rest of the civilised world does when training learners. No wonder people drive like they do on motorways at the moment
They should allow it and enforce it as in the rest of the civilised world does when training learners. No wonder people drive like they do on motorways at the moment
WildBoy
I haven’t travelled extensively but always had the British in high regards in terms of their driving standards. Whilst part of it will be down to road design, other will be to obeying the letter of the law, GB has some of the lowest fatalities.
I grant you they may fluster when road design goes out the window but overall, it’s very very civilised over here…
Actually come to think of it… a tough test doesn’t make you a good driver. Some countries have much harder tests and rules around it (i.e. Greece), yet drivers are shockingly dangerous every day./
The culture and education of drivers is probably more important…
I haven’t seen so many wild lane changes on a motorway as I have in the UK, and the ring roads of Paris, that is suicidal. There is also loads of crazy undertaking well over the speed limit. It’s key to teach young learners how to drive on the fastest roads of the country where accidents have higher chances of being mortal. Also when it comes to highways the British have really good roads compared to Spain or Italy so road design wouldn’t be the excuse I think. I’m not saying that brits are bad drivers in general, I’m saying that they seem to forget everything on motorways.
Also with two lanes you only have two options (fast and slow)... the more lanes, the more complexity, the more the brain freaks out (possible, not scientifically researched!)... some people can deal with it instinctively, some people can learn to, and some can never process it that well (again, just my opinion with no peer reviewed research).
Serrisan
That is another situation which also applies to dual carriageways, though. The A3 has three lanes all the way to Guildford, whilst when it becomes the A3(M) it only has two lanes. And there plenty more examples of two lane motorways and of A-roads with three or more. On the A27 heading east from Portsmouth you have to move over to lane three or four to stay on that road, as the first two go off to become the A3(M). Surely that is a more dangerous thing for an unconfident learner to be expected to do than anything the A3(M) could offer.
Obviously if you are that unconfident you can just avoid that road altogether. But as far as the law is concerned just staying in the left lane is deemed too risky and dangerous, whilst crossing two lanes of fast traffic is considered perfectly fine. I just do not understand that.
The key thing to note about this proposal, though, is that motorway lessons will still not be required.
The proposal is only to make make them possible should a learner want them. People will still be able to pass their test without any training for dealing with faster roads. It will probably be the case that those who particularly need them most will not bother, with many just doing the minimum required to get their licence. Besides, given schools can already take students on motorway-like A-roads without needing dual control cars and removing roof signs, I wonder how many would even bother taking advantage of a change to offer motorway lessons.
The Peripherique a revolutionary orbital of its time, I did it in as part of a mid '70’s European motorcycle tour in celebration of some referendum or other of the day. Rumour has it a French and Irish navvy got chatting over a couple glasses of black nectar in celebration of having received bonuses for the early completion of some Paris tarmac including the Peripherique and some take off strips for the Concorde. Their conversation was earwigged by a spy wall flower from the UK Highways Agency and the acorn for the M25 was firmly planted!
Le Periph and the M25 car parks, city orbital park and drives - don’t go there
