riding along… coming off Blackfriars Road onto St Georges Circus in the left lane… im travelling at around 15-20mph & join onto the left lane going round to London Road as its totally clear to the right & left… van is on the inside/right lane coming from Westminster Bridge Road direction going round… the van then starts to turn into my lane cutting me up… now im level with his rear wheel… im thinking if a stand my ground il just be bounced of the side of his van… up the kerb… arse over heels… … … so i start braking abruptly… letting his rear bumper just pass in front of my front wheel… im still braking at around 10mph… when he then does a emergergency stop at the pedestrian crossing as he sees a lady about to step onto it… leaving me no braking distance… maybe about 3ft if im lucky… so i pin the brakes… hitting his centre rear bumper at around 5mph… then with my feet still up… the bike starts to fall over to my left… lol… & side step off the bike letting it fall… engine casing cracked & dripping oil… front plastics/headlights mashed !! :crazy:
driver came out & said i thought it was the van that hit me… & thought that id got passed him???.. i cant say i saw a van… was to busy concentrating on what was happening to my right… so im assuming… i was in his blind spot… & where he was looking in his mirror… then turned to look forward… paniced when a woman stepped onto the zebra crossing !! :blink:
if he hadnt of stopped… then all would of been ok… id of had time to let him pull ahead… then i would of passed on his right… giving the old 5 knuckle shuffle salute for being an arse… shouting “check your bloody mirrors”… then gone on my merry way !!
now if you see the Red Bus opposite Borough Road… the van driver is taking the same route as the bus… cutting out the corner to go up London Road… id be inline with the buses rear wheel arch at this point… you can see the zebra crossing at the beginning of London Road by the tree !!
is it still my fault?.. i reported it today… its going through the solictors… id be glad of any ‘technical’ terms like ‘without due care & attention’ etc… lol !! :Wow:
I’d yes to the subject title, though from your description it sounds a tricky one and I’ve read it twice and still not sure if you got hit first from the van on your left or where it all started.
I’m confused, you say "van is on the inside/right lane coming from Westminster Bridge Road direction going round… " and then “driver came out & said i thought it was the van that hit me” - the driver of a another car? or of the previously mentioned van?
and then “i cant say i saw a van… was to busy concentrating on what was happening to my right…” which conflicts with your statement that the “van is on the inside/right lane”
If the van cut you up then for whatever reason slammed on its brakes and you end up going into the back of it because you had insufficient stopping distance due to it swerving into your path with no warning, then I would say that wasn’t really your fault. But I’m no expert, mind.
People usually draw some nice piccies for us to try to follow that complex description. A series of piccies showing the stages or progression in this case!
I went into the back of a car which had stopped at apex corner going left at the roundabout on the sliproad. dangeous place for her to stop, she was letting a car change lanes from the right who had no right of way.
Give way to traffic on your right is commonplace in our system. As is keep your distance. If you violate these basics, its usually “your fault”.
I’m only guessing. But you’d have to show you had right of way in your lane and that the van driver changed into the left lane, from the right lane without due care and attention. That you were not speeding/undertaking and that you reacted reasonably yet could not avoid the collision.
There’s some experts on here, so make it as clear as possible to get some help
I’d suggest getting some screen prints of Google Maps/ Earth to help out with the explanation for the insurance people if it comes to that.
You could just print them out and draw the vehicles on them.
However, the reason that you are generally at fault when you hit the rear of another vehicle is because you owe other road users a duty of care. Driving two inches from someone’s bumper, not paying attention to the traffic ahead and not noticing someone has braked, all of this is your failure to maintain your duty of care.
Very seldom will it NOT be your fault when you hit the car in front.
Saying that, if a car swerves into your line, forcing you to brake to avoid contact and then immediately brakes in front of you in an emergency fashion, and despite all attempts by you, your vehicle hits their vehicle.
Then clearly this is not a failure of your duty of care. It is a failure of the duty of care of the driver ahead of you.
From your description it wasn’t your fault, but in the real world without any independent witnesses I’d say this will come down to what the van driver says to his insurer. If he denies cutting you up & says you ran into the back of him when he stopped to let an old dear cross on a ped crossing then you’ll struggle to get any blame apportioned to him.
In 99.9% of cases, when someone runs into the back of another vehicle, it is what is called strict liability, in that it is deemed that the rear most vehicle was travelling too close to the vehicle in front and therefore was incapable of being able to stop in the distance they could see to be clear.
However, in the past few months, there has been one encouraging case where the the vehicle in front that was hit from the rear was also held partly liable to the tune of 60/40 rather than the usual 100%.
So whilst it all depends on circumstances, and in most cases the rear ending driver/rider will still be held liable, the there has been a slight shift in emphasis recently, no doubt due to the increasing cash for crash scams which normally involve the victim being brake tested.
I think even working without any legal knowledge whatsoever the general rule is that if you hit something from behind, you weren’t leaving adequate stopping distance under the circumstances and are automatically therefore eligible to be accused of driving without due care and attention…
but like I say, I have no legal training…
Can’t see how you’d argue against that though… you hit him, so obviously you weren’t able to stop in time, so you weren’t driving sufficiently carefully. Its a pretty solid argument against you really…
My understanding was if you hit the car in front insurers said it was your fault every time.
But now (in like last year or so) because insurance scammers are pulling in front then slamming on the brakes to force you to crash into them so they can claim whiplash, Parliament is doing an all party select committee to see about redefining the laws. Be a lot of years before the MP’s move their arses on this, regardless of the fact most of the front bench and PM are Names.
It is not clear what the position of the van was as you pulled onto St George’s Circus. You say it is completely clear then say the van is to your right. The van would need to be in the right lane then turn left if it was coming from Westminster Bridge to London road. If it was coming from your right on that junction you would need to give way to it regardless of the lane it was in. Also, approaching a crossing, you should anticipate that other vehicles may stop for pedestrians etc. Obviously the situation may be different to that, but you can’t blame another vehicle for stopping quickly at a crossing there they are obliged to give way.
sorry for any confusion… heres a very basic pic… lol… but im no Tony Hart… … … the dotted line is where i saw the van when entering… with him being in the lane to my right… he cut the corner… & myself to get into my lane that i was travelling along… i had 2 choices… be stubborn & get bounced off the side of his van & sent towards the kerb… & at my speed… up it & onto the pavement out of control !! :crazy:
or brake harshly… to avoid this… & hopefully its enough to avoid his rear bumper clipping with my front tyre… which would of resulted in me also coming off… fortunately his rear bumper did just miss my tyre… but then he did an emergency stop within 1 second of him just getting pass my front tyre… i had nowhere to go but into his van !! :crying:
if he hadnt of emergency braked… with his constant speed… & my continous braking… then the gap would of got big enough for me to eventually overtake on his right handside from behind & air my thoughts !! :pinch:
I think if the vehicle in front reverses into you then it’s not your fault but otherwise I think the usual line is that you should have allowed appropriate stopping distance. In the scenario you describe it seems that you were cut up though so were presented with a stopping distance of nothing.
