intelligent design or evolution

Recently read ‘The God Delusion’ by Richard Dawkins, which is one point of view…

things not to bring up on a forum;

#1 Religion
#2 Politics
#3 Religion


I personally believe that we have been put here by aliens and they are conducting some bizarre experiment on us that is leading to the inevitable destruction of the earth.


oh now seriously. I believe there is something… something happening that is slightly out of line with my normal perception of things, almost as if there is a bigger picture out there that like a dog trying to do mathematics, is slightly out of my capacity to understand.

If that is god, spirit, providence, hell, heaven, angels, belief, elecotrostatic energy that cannot be destroyed just passed along to another form (think about it), a higher being, mother nature or the effects of the sun on our tiny human brains i have no idea and dont pretend to comprehend.

Its pretty cool tho.

PS: The alien thing is true. TRUE I TELL’S YA!!!

Heh, yeah you’re probably right there red but heck, darryl did ask! :smiley:

So what did you think of the God delusion? I’ve not read it myself, it takes me long enough to read novels. Heck, it takes me long enough to read my comics.

yeah, talk about a can of worms… I say we give Daryl an atomic wedgie

how about this as a thorey, god creates the univers then toddled off to do something else leaving the univers to its own divices.

now over the millions of years that have passed from the creation of the univers nature has taken its corse and we evolved here on this planet

that way everyones right arn’t they???:slight_smile:

Reminds me of a farside cartoon “God as a boy inventing the chicken” but you can’t get a copy of it on the internet.

Have you noticed Darryl has simply lit the blue touch paper and stood back to watch? This is probably more of a study in behaviour than a debate over Creation vs Evolution :stuck_out_tongue:

Dare i write this…oh what the heck it’s only my opinion:D Some wally who was sat in the desert wrote the bible cos he was bored:P Hence God was a character in a book not a real person:w00t: i’ve gotten sick and tired of working out religion and politics so i tend to just walk away when people start talking “GOD”…:smiley:

good observation RK… I say we give him a wedgie :smiley:

read all this with great interest and my thought has always been that we choose a life path or religeon as it gives our lives a focus, and with things like the gospels and other religeous writings gives us a moral guide (the ten commandments) and if each group followed their moral guide the world would probably be a better place.

but i think that generally you either believe or you dont and noone can make you believe. if god(s) does exist and is all powerfull then your god(s) could make you believe but the fact that we have free will allows us to make decisions about our own lives.without free will gods cannot exist

use a god if need one because any one who turns to their god will be saved , so they say, and any thing that brings people comfort and support at a time of need is a good thing and if it gives a life path that works for you its a good thing. but we all know that religeon has caused more and bloodier wars than anyother thing in history , as people all believe their god(s) is the one true god(s).

if you feel you need religeon then it will find you but take from it what you can and live a good life thats all that matters.

so in short … who knows the truth , only your heart will find your true path because your head will get tired trying to work it all out.

May your gods go with you

Amen to that john!

each to their own like everything in life.

I worship the GSXR & pray that I get home everyday safely so that at the weekend I can religously watch the Moto GP :smiley:

lol well at least you’re commited :wink:

Roadkill, in answer to your question about the God Delusion book I would say it’s worth reading whether you are a believer or not. The author Richard Dawkins believes 100% in Darwin’s Theory of Evolution and from memory I think he say’s he is 95% certain that he doesn’t believe in God. Good challenging read. My opinion- everyone should have the freedom to believe whatever they want.

Live and let live, but some observations though. MOST people are GIVEN their religion by their parents it’s not chosen. As the Jesuits used to say, “Give me the boy till the age of seven and I’ll give you the man” Most people don’t really understand science or what it has/does and continues to do for us. I’m contually amazed by adults (of the religious persuation) who say they did not come from monkeys/apes etc. It’s very hard for the human brain to comprehend the time scales involved in evolution.

Opps, work just got busy…

I was surprised to find that there is a lot more scientific evidence to creation than I gave it credit for.

Of course, sometimes the evidence can be interpreted either way. It all depends on your own angle.

Added to which, on either side of the argument, a lot of it goes right over my head.

I tried reading an article about carbon dating once (not that I’ve ever wanted to go out with one :p) but I just couldn’t understand what the heck it was talking about. That is, how it works and “Why it’s inaccurate”.

Sorry roadkill, there is NO scientific evidence for creationism or that other non science argument of ‘intelligent design’. I’m not anti religion in any way, but I do wish creationists would stop trying to hijack science by trying to use it against itself. Religion does what it does, science does what it does and never the twain should meet. Science is the gradual accumulation of TESTED hypothesis, these when independently proven by independent sources in double blind experiments become theory’s. These theories are then used until they themselves are superseded by new theories/evidence. Science constantly evolves and tries to better itself. The God Delusion is a very worthwhile read. When I bought it, sitting next to it was the Dawkins Delusion, I was tempted to by both and perhaps I will, however the latter book was double the price with only a couple of hundred pages…

I can’t remember the chaps name, but he was asked as an atheist, if he died and was indeed faced with god, what would he say? He answered by saying that if it happened he would look god in the eye and say something like there was simply not enough evidence.

Regardless of how I feel about god-bashing (hate it!) I still enjoy listening to the religious spot on Terry Wogan’s breakfast show. I listen with interest to holy people of all the relgions/denominations and they always give me a new insight and put a smile on my face. I am very ecelctic :smiley: I think that’s the key to my life anyway, drawing some new inspiration from everyone I meet, regardless of who or what they do or believe in.

Darwin’s theory is probably as close as we are going to get to what really happened. It’s prehistory and scientists and learned scholars have worked hard putting the puzzle of our existance down on paper. The church is only 2000 years old… and that has been re-written and translated many many times from one language to another. Whilst I do agree there are many great deeds and inspiration in that book, it’s still a work of fiction. Doesn’t mean you can’t source knowledge from it though. I thouroughly enjoyed the Celestine Prophecy… and Anne Rice’s version of events in Memnoch the Devil :smiley: Who really knows? No one.

Great debate. I still opt for the wedgie :smiley:

For anyone interested in a good look at evelution theory could try this

It’s basically Darwins original but rewritten to sort out the bits Darwin didn’t really understand or the stuff we’ve only just started to understand ourselves (genetics, DNA etc) If there are any Xtians out there who are still convinced that AIDS was sent by god to punish homosexuals the intro on viral infection/transmission will be a fun read!

There is no tested hypothesis for evolution, not even one, it’s a collection of assertions and beliefs that have been declared by some scientists to be the truth :w00t: It’s a case of the Emperrors new clothes. How can you test evolution ? There are no talking dogs, monkeys have still not managed to use tools and develop beyond their origins and fish are still fish in the sea.There’s an interesting article in Nature, NS and also partially reported on the BBC:(From

OLDEST GORILLA TEETH FOUND, according to articles in BBC News Online and
Nature, vol. 418, p145, 22 Aug 2007 and New Scientist, 25 Aug, p12. Japanese and
Ethiopian Palaeontologists have found nine fossil teeth in the Afar valley in
Ethiopia that are “collectively indistinguishable from modern gorilla
subspecies”. The teeth have a distinctive structure that enables gorillas to
feed on very fibrous plant material, such as stems and leaves. They are dated as
10 million years old, making them the oldest gorilla fossils so far found. This
age challenges the theory that ancestors of gorillas separated from the
ancestors of chimpanzees and humans eight million years ago. The fossils have
been given the scientific name, “Chororapithecus abyssinicus” after the
geological formation they were found in, the Miocene Chorora formation, and the
old name for Ethiopia, which was Abyssinia.

BBC article:

Coment: Not the naming ploy - these fossils have been given a different genus
and species name from present day gorillas despite the fact that they are
“collectively indistinguishable from modern gorilla subspecies”. Giving them a
different name simply because they are dated as being older than evolutionary
belief about when gorillas evolved, is not evidence for evolution; it is
applying already held evolutionary prejudice to the facts which actually are
undeniable evidence that gorillas have reproduced after their kind, just as
Genesis says they were made to do. (Ref. apes, primates, Africa)

Have a look at This site is run by Scientists who have taken a scientific approach to Creation and provide reports like the one above in a regualr basis. The reports in Nature and on the BBC are very common, Science trying to prove and reinforce the myths of evolution when in fact there is none anywhere, just more assertions but no proof.

I’m pretty open minded and if I thought there was any proof then I’d be interested but in the years I’ve been reading about this stuff I’ve never found any.