Oh yay!! ;)BTW⌠WOW!!! Just had a look at your photo gallery, some lovely work on there!! 
:evil laugh:
man handled a 450D myself this weekend. going to china next month and figure itâd be a good time to play with one if i was going to take the plunge
not sure i can justify the cash (esp as not much cash is coming in after this week when i leave my job)
decisions decisions
Bet you could pick up a 350D or 400D for much less than the new 450D. Then thereâs second handâŚ
had a look on fleabay but there werenât any of the used variety when i checked. are the 450dâs features not worth the extra moola over the other two models you mentioned? funds are tight, but if iâm gonna get one of these i figure its not worth scrimping too hard?in terms of just getting started assuming i duck the massive fancy lenses, iâll need spare batteries and sd cards. will i need one of those big-ass flashes? (not ginger dropping his trousersâŚ). will i be ok with just the standard lens?
Ben - looking at prices online Iâm getting ÂŁ380 for 400D+lens and ÂŁ500 for 450D +lens
If youâve the ÂŁ120 floating around then buy the best you can, never a debate there.
If not then get the 400D and youâll be very happy Iâm sure. The extra that you pay for (more megapixels and a bigger screen/viewfinder) are nice to have but unless you start thinking about 20inch prints you wonât notice the mp count (my 1D is only 10mp just to give you some idea). The bigger screen/viewfinder only matters once youâve tried the bigger one! otherwise you never notice.
Just be careful, it might be a smaller screen than a point and shoot type, but then again the screen is not used to compose the image on, only to review it.
Either will giev cracking results but youâll have to study the book on the flight. These arenât point and shoot cams and so some faffing and âCâmon just take the damn pictureâ will have to be tolerated hehe.
Oh, and take the point and shoot too - there are places you donât want to take a flash camera to for sure (usually places where drink is served )
hehe itâs amazing how you can reel them off ainât it?
Good start man, keep it up.
cheers fella. defo will have a lot to learn quickly before i head out. will ultimately get myself on a course I think if i do go ahead with this.
the spec seemed to mention something about stabilisation for the 450D and RAW images that the 400D didnât do. wouldnât know a RAW image if it pinged me in the nuts at the moment tho but assuming its a more detailed/less compressed image format for manipulation?
iâm hoping that the odd âluckyâ image will be good to blow up very large for framing in the flat so the extra pixels seem like a good call then
speaking from experience with tipsy camera damage there mate? 
might have a run down tottenham court road and see what deals i can wangle.
reckon it would be a good idea to look for lenses etc in China?
hehe yeah thatâs a RAW image - they offer slightly better quality and more processing control than a JPEG which is compressed by the camera before being written to your card. During this compression you can lose a small amount of quality (and you will be able to choose how much compression is applied by the size of image you want) itâs true, but really you have to be picky.
Shooting RAW means a lot more cards are needed or regular downloading onto a PC - I get 127 RAW images to a 2gig card but 340 largest JPEGs. RAW images are slower and more clumsy to work with (Windows wonât thumbnail them in a browser unless you download a mod). On holiday Iâd shoot JPEG frankly, just to save on card usage. There is also a small increase on battery drain as it writes a larger file to the mem card.
Both cameras shoot RAW so no probs there.
Image Stabilizing is a lens (not camera) feature and the kit lens with the 450D has it. But with that type of lens youâd really have to be pushing your luck for it to matter. It tries to counteract you moving the camera during the exposure (as if the lens floats on gyros) which is not necessary during daytime while the exposures are short (1/60th +) but during the eve there may be times when you canât rest the camera on something stable and donât want to use the built in flash. Iâd just increase the ISO which makes the camera more light sensitive so you donât need long exposures although there is a reduction in quality. Never had an IS lens so Iâve always had to make do. Buy a Gorilla Pod (small tripod with gripping legs) as well.
Buying lenses in China might prove cheaper than over here for sure. Keep your eyes out - perhaps a lens that runs up to 200mm would be cool to give you more reach, but remember itâs all more stuff to cart around.
Iâm at BM tonight so mebbe weâll chat more 
so made any progress then puppy?
almost at the point of ordering myself - havenât got the cash for all the kit you got but been swayed by the 40d myself now (esp with cash back and found i can get the VAT back so bit less painful!).
the glass lensed 17-85 thats bundled with it gives a reasonably good range (i hope), and lets face it, the kit is gonna be better than me for years to come. figure I can upgrade/add to the lens if i stick with it/get half decent?
Absolutely Ben, no need to blow a wad now in the hope that you are getting the right kit. Youâll find out in time what you need and will be able to buy it as and when.
Yeah, câmon Guy letâs have some progress report
I bought a 400D last year and cannot rate it high enough. For my purposes as a complete novice its fantastic, i moved from a point and click to this as I wanted to be able to take better pics in low light, be able to zoom in better and take sharper pics that I envisaged in my head but my camera just couldnt manage it 
I had an excellent opportunity to take cracking shots whilst in the US the past two weeks, learnt a lot about lighting and the like. Im quite chuffed with myself. Took approx 1000 pics in two weeks lol.
ok so almost bought the 40d with the 17-85 lens
well technically i put the order in online but its a bit complicated as iâm putting it thru my motherâs business so have to provide address proofs etc so it wasnât completed as such
in the meantime went back into a shop on tot ct rd near my missus place and thought iâd get a price from them in the meantime. they appear to be genuine photographers rather than a schmo selling the gear in the shop (quite a few other places admitted they didnât even own a camera!). was told by a diff guy to the ones iâd spoke to before but i believe to be the owners (in somewhat blunt fashion) that the 85mm canon lens was a fat bag of turd. 40d was a good cam I but was spending my budget in the wrong place. the guy reckoned iâd get much better pics with the 450D and a sigma 18-200 anyway (tbh i wanted the more versitile lens anyway so wasnât all that unhappy to hear this).
thing is due to the above situ with my mum, at the point we were discussing it wasnât a buying situ so he offered the opinion as just that as he didnât think he was making a sale anyway so prob can throw out making margins on other cams influencing the advice
soooâŚis this the case? are the âlowerâ cost lenses even on the 40d such a bag of pap?
going back tomoz to get a cam ordered i think (after the above worked out a way that we can play the game, assuming they price me well)
finally got it sorted!went for a pentax 200D with Tamron 18-250 lens. low key compared to some of the stuff a lot of you lot are using but pretty chuffed with it have to say
ordered it online on fri and bugger me if it wasnât waiting for me when i got home today (it was in case youâre reading this westie )
bit of mucking around this evening with depth of field and some of the settings:
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Hey Ben, get those shots !! Look great man - hope the cam works out for you and brings back the bacon from China.