Ok, without going over the whole issue of the legalitys of the war in Iraq. There is one point I’d like to make clear, which is in the public domain but normally not mentioned. That is that during the invasion and continuing to this day, the American’s, Brit’s and other Coalition nations have kept exacting records of all ‘allied’ service personnel injured or killed within that country. However, nobody can even start to count the number of Iraqi’s (both combatant and civilian) that have been killed. I think the Red Cross/Cresent is estimating some were in the region of ten thousand if not more!
The situation in Iraq is unlike anything or anywere (with the exeption of Afghanistan), to say it’s sureal is putting it mildly. However, given a chance it can recover and become a wealthy nation again.
Should anybody be interested, I’ll happily discuss this further via pm.
Its a humvee not a tank. They have a massive sign on the back warning people to keep 100 metres (or is it yards? cant remember) back or they will be shot at. The yanks dont like it when you get in close proximity trust me, they even shot at a few of my mates when i was out there cause they where getting too close, they where in a big fugg off british armoured vehicle with the flag on for fugg sake but thats a different story. And im not gona get in a debate about the whole war thing cause well im just not, done that too many a time now
Those Hummers must cost hundreds of thousands a piece. Would have thought another couple of hundred dollars for missive air horns would have been part of the package!
Have to take your hat off to most of the local drivers there though, some good evasive action. If it was London most would just freeze in the middle of the road and look all confused!!
Fascinating stuff! :doze: Has anybody else noticed the words "The graphic above provides a rough daily update of this number based on a rate of increase derived from the Iraq Body Count."ESTIMATES!!!.. Also, if you look at the link Iraq Body Count, you’ll notice that the vast majority of the deaths that are estimated are caused/attributed to insurgents and suicide bombers. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that suicide bombing is not an Allied Forces tactic! Neither is shooting innocent civillians! Have you ever been in a conflict BBSMonk? You seem to be very informed on what is going on… :doze: I’m just thinking that you must have been in some sort of confict to have such bold/informed opinions, otherwise (as mentioned by Jay) you must just be an armchair warrior!.. And before you ask, yes I have been in those situations before, which would make me a voice of experience!
Come on Chunk’s, it’s me FFS! :PIn the last 12 years of my life I’ve been shot at, stabbed, blown up and pertol bombed! I think I can handle a sandle! :w00t:
Hey, if I was an ordinary joe living in Baghdad and some arrogant uppity foreign soldiers would be bumping me in the back bumper as I’m driving around the city, I know it’d make me pretty damn angry. Probably angry enough to join the insurgency.
You tell me they WONDER why people are trying to blow them up over there? Get real. What goes around comes around… show some respect to the people instead, it’s probably going to work better than ramming them.
it is hilarious, now you blame insurgent causing deaths in iraq, i remember then you(pro-war opinion) blamed saddam, before that, you were friends with saddam:) when you cannot face the hard truth, you always have the killer question: are you saying it was better under saddam’s regime:D give me a break.
i am an aimchair commentator, as always, nothing to be ashamed of, you all are, just you do not admit it. maybe chunkymonkey you were a soldier before, but i doubt you were in real combat. i never served in army, but i was chased by tank and machine gun before, i saw dead bodies, probably i saw real action more than many real soldiers.
as an armchair strategist, i think american soldiers are lousy soldiers without their advanced equipments. Puting moral issue aside, i think if it were japanese, chinese, korean, or even vietnamese soldiers doing the same job in iraq, or in afghanistan, they would have cleared up insurgents years earlier:w00t:
I’m not going to argue with you over this anymore, except to say that before you start trying to accuse the Allied Forces for all the deaths over there, try reading up on the facts and figures you are quoting! If you look at the links involved in my last post you will notice that the 1.3million deaths you quoted are in actual fact the number of deaths caused by the insurgents! Insurgents who are not even from Iraq/Afghanistan! Most of them are from other countries where they are recruited by cowards who would be too scared to do it themselves!
Well done for being an armchair warrior, I’m sure the world will eventually bend to your way of thinking! :doze:
Personally, I think from your past history of threads/comments on this forum that you are just some self opinionated, pompous, chronic whinger who just likes the sound of his own voice! Whatever makes you happy mate! Just remember that the reason you are allowed to express such opinions is thanks to the lives that have been sacrificed in the last hundred years or more by the very people that you seem to despise so much!
Please feel free to actually pop down to one of the weekly meets if you feel like actually talking about something like bikes/ride-outs/how people have been lately… That is unless it might be interupting yet another crusade against the evils of western civilisation!
+1 Roadrunner!! Saying that, makes a change from the No Parking Charge drivel. Being shot at and rocketed in these countrys does give some a wider prospective than watching it on the news!
thanks for pointing out i am “self-opinioinated, pompous, chonic whinging” please allow me to be self-opinionated for one more time, let me point out to you that your maths, or political maths, has two standards. Are you convinced if you tell you 9/11 hijackers just killed dozens of people in the twin towers, the thousands of death caused were actually the result of collapsed building, technically. if you refuse to accept this, why do you apply a different logic on iraqi civilian deaths caused by the war? i know this country sacrificed many lives, and i also know the freedom is limited, many people lost their job just because they spoke differently about the war. In the same way as there are radicalism and cruelties in non-european world, there are radicalism and cruelties in different forms in the so-called western civilization. I don’t see injustice or crimes against humanity in terms of culture or civilization, a crime is crime, as simple as that. Obviously americans do not see things in this way. If americans held terrorists individually responsible, they were dead by the way, why did they attack some irrelavant countries and peoples. Clearly they put everything in a basket and attacked whole countries and punished its peoples, isn’t this a very narrow tribal, irrational thinking, or even racism behind this?as i ( an armchair strategist) see it, you do not have to be a killer or a rapist to pass judgement or comment on killings or rapings, in the same way, you do not have to be a soldier or a former soldier to comment on what happens in Iraq.
I hear what you say matey, there is also a conspiricy theory out there (on the web) that the aircraft on the day of the 9/11 were remote controlled and the towers were deliberately dropped by the Americans! Now I’m not saying I agree with that point of view, but I also don’t rule it out of hand. At the end of the day, there’s a lot of stuff that goes on behind closed doors. Things which 95% of us don’t get to hear about and even fewer know about. There are some LB’rs that have been involved in Iraq/Afghanistan over the recent years. Just doing the jobs they get paid to do. Regardless of how it started, blame the governments, not the troops.
i just think it is too convinient to hide the issue of right and wrong, individual responsibility behind complicated legality and bureaucratic proceture, when we discuss big things as wars, small things as traffic wardens:)
Ok, speaking from first hand experiance I and others thought it might be usefull to give the ‘eyes on the ground’ point of view. I for one, am not going to air laundry like this on a public site. Looks like we’ve got a conversation topic the next time we meet at Aces (as I don’t get down to BM). Poor yourself a hot one, n pull up a sandbag lets chew it over. Gravy granuals or Real THAT is the REAL discussion!!!
Totally agree Rob, but you’ll never see him at the Ace, or anywhere else for that matter! And, if you did, you’d probably just end up going around in circles! I think we should just leave this “Walter Mitty” to his own devices! ;)Look forward to pulling up a sandbag and swinging the lantern next time I’m at the Ace mate…
Also, if you look at the link 
please allow me to be self-opinionated for one more time, let me point out to you that your maths, or political maths, has two standards. Are you convinced if you tell you 9/11 hijackers just killed dozens of people in the twin towers, the thousands of death caused were actually the result of collapsed building, technically. if you refuse to accept this, why do you apply a different logic on iraqi civilian deaths caused by the war? i know this country sacrificed many lives, and i also know the freedom is limited, many people lost their job just because they spoke differently about the war. In the same way as there are radicalism and cruelties in non-european world, there are radicalism and cruelties in different forms in the so-called western civilization. I don’t see injustice or crimes against humanity in terms of culture or civilization, a crime is crime, as simple as that. Obviously americans do not see things in this way. If americans held terrorists individually responsible, they were dead by the way, why did they attack some irrelavant countries and peoples. Clearly they put everything in a basket and attacked whole countries and punished its peoples, isn’t this a very narrow tribal, irrational thinking, or even racism behind this?as i ( an armchair strategist) see it, you do not have to be a killer or a rapist to pass judgement or comment on killings or rapings, in the same way, you do not have to be a soldier or a former soldier to comment on what happens in Iraq.
I think we should just leave this “Walter Mitty” to his own devices! ;)Look forward to pulling up a sandbag and swinging the lantern next time I’m at the Ace mate…