…for example Chris Jetstream points to precisely where he wants you to stop…i have been on other non-LB rideouts where there is just a wave in the general direction…
We do!!, but with some riders they’re half way home before they come to a stop
Not always …
Fine theory if you’re in a parade and each rider is riding in a dedicated position, however on a ride out where the pace may be progressive and riders will overtake the gap between rider 1 and rider 2 is the safety gap. The point of the stagger is it creates a greater field of vision allowing rider 2 to see well past rider 1 and rider 3 to see well past rider 2 etc. It also increases the margin for error within a convoy type situation and minimises the risk of any domino effect.
The military way (they have a reasonable history of “group” driving/riding) is to get the slowest guys up front right behind the leader. They are the ones that dictate the pace.
“Never ride faster than a speed you are happy with” was the maxim drilled into me by the Kent CC fuzz. “If others think you are too slow. Tough”.
Well we look forward to seeing the draft article Andrew.
Lots of good ideas here.
Having ridden in the pack for the first time in a long time last Sunday, it was drawn to my attention that a rider immediately behind me weaving in and out of my blind spots can be a little un-nerving.
Baiting naughty cars is not the best idea for any biker, however experienced, we felt the need to hold back for a mile or two before getting a chance to overtake said car and the van infront in one smooth manoeuvre.
To be honest, it`s down to the leader to assess their group and size of group.
We started by leading rides IAM style. It lasted a couple of weeks.
Now my preference with an experienced group is to use age and trechery to overtake just before the double whites close in so the group gets spread out and can ride at their own pace.
As long as everyone understands the cornerman system a lead rider 5 miles ahead is no problem, we always wait and indicate corners before progressing.
In such a group, keeping two riders in view is not necessary.
When leading a slower group things change, we still give them space but stop to regroup more frequently.
It is sometimes worth stopping to advise the group of fords, gravel and cow **** if they are predictable.
Its sometimes a good idea to count yer group before you set off so you can worry a little if a few don`t rock up.
Remember, KTMs have a limited range.
Italian exotica leak coolant and oil.
Ninjas are trouble.
Check yer oil.
The more phone numbers exchanged the better.
Make sure yer lunch stop does a full roast and bar snacks.
Make sure yer destination is worth visiting.
Pick a tailgunner who can take the points.
Above all enjoy the English summer and if in doubt ask Road Captain.
don’t try and keep up with TDJ.
or ride4fun.
Personal view of this and going by rides we arrange and Wales trips:
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It helps the leader if he knows how many bikes are on the ride and abilities.
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Give each other space when riding in a group-That means in front, behind and to the side in case the rider has to veer away from something.
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If there is a slower rider in front give them space and be patient if wanting to over take.
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The slower rider-If you are uncomfortable at riding any quicker then just wave the rider behind through. NO ONE WILL THINK ANY LESS OF YOU, in fact you get more praise and encouragement to do so.
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If a rider in front is in a position to do an overtake and getting ready for a clear view etc DO NOT OVERTAKE THEM. (I’ve seen far too many situations that could have lead to a nasty accident especially when riders way down the pack decide to whack the throttle open and over take a group then cut back in).
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White lines are there for a reason…Don’t cross them! Again alot of inpatient riders sitting behind another rider waiting for them to break just go out, can’t see the oncoming cars and put everyone at risk again.
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What boils my piss is number 5, then the rider just cuts in front of another and slams their breaks on. This has the domino effect down the rest of the pack and causes mayhem.
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Remember, the rider in front may know the roads better than you do, don’t try keeping up out of your depth.
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Read the road for yourself don’t rely on the rider in front.
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I’d disagree with Jetstream’s idea of jumping the whites just before they come in to split the group. We prefer for the leader to over take as soon as the double whites clear allowing the people behind to over take in their own time and not worry about losing the leader and having to catch up. I feel it just causes unnecessary panic.
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On trips where people have luggage. Keep an eye on the riders luggage in front, if it starts moving around or looks different to before let them know. We have had someone’s luggage come off mid pack, straight in front of another rider, she had to take avoiding action. If a rider had been too close they would have collided.
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Right turnings!!! - So so many times riders just ignore the fact and belt down what looks like a clear run of traffic or other vehicles, only for them to suddenly turn right. We all know this has caused accidents and has caused fatal accidents within our community.
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Remember in group rides you are with others, not on your own. If you ride like a pratt on your own that’s fine but ride like it in a group and expect to be told so. Instead of others enjoying a day out they have to ride defensively just to keep themselves safe.
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KEEP YOUR WITS ABOUT YOU AT ALL TIMES.
Staggered riding as mentioned is very useful, we always used it on the RAC course (I was an instructor), and I still use it if I come up behind another rider even if I am not on a group ride.
Here is a perfect example of why it’s good practice:
Two years ago I went down to the coast to give a mates wife some tuition, she was on a 125, me and me mate were on VFR’s. She had completed all the basic courses and been out on her own and with her husband many times but wasn’t confident.
We did some basic stuff in a car park, figure of 8’s, braking etc. Then we went for a ride around the town. When we stopped for a cuppa I told her about staggered riding and a couple of other things, off we went.
We were going down a long straight road, loads of traffic lights, she was constantly riding directly behind her husband, at one set of lights I pulled up alongside of her and warned her about riding directly behind another bike.
At the next lights the husband went across on amber, she stopped and so did I as I was at the back. The next lights he stopped on amber, she was again directly behind him, at first she tried to brake, and at the last minute, tried avoiding action.
The result was she hit her husband at low speed, but try telling leg bones that it was only 10mph, she took a tumble, broke her leg, damaged the bike and has not ridden since.
She did have one moment of recollection in the hospital when she said, “Now I understand staggered riding”.
Bob
Good example Bob …
But do remember the whole idea of staggered riding is to give each rider a better view and potentially more space, not to condense the group. Another example some will remember - St Georges ride out 2011, a large group riding down hill in a staggered formation across the carriageway approaching a roundabout, and one rider had an off. I don’t think it had so much to do with the progressive pace, more to do with the number of bikes in a confined space, one over enthusiastic rider failed to see the roundabout :w00t:
Some good points by Ang and the Jetstreams too …
On luggage also keep an eye on top boxes, we had at least three go AWOL last year, and while watching the bike in front a visual check on the tyre pressures does no harm, especially if they’re riding two up :Whistling:
Most points been covered but I would just add that your should remember you are reponsible for your own safety at all times and should also show consideration for the safety of the other riders within the group as well as other road users.
Dangerous corner marking positioning:
I have noticed on many occasions riders marking corners in some extremely dangerous positions, particulary on or coming off roundabouts on major roads/dual carriagways, having caused cars/lorries to have to brake hard and or swerve around very badly position bike/riders… Place yourself in a safe position! The leader will generally indicated in good time so when you find yourself in second position, anticipate, give yourself some space, don’t just wait and slam your brakes on when the leader points, pick a safe place to stop back from the corner if necessary and point the direction or past the junction but above all in a safe place… Please just use a bit of common sense!
Also it maybe that the tailgunner will, for safety/traffic reasons, have to come past you on a corner, he/she will
signal to you in some way on passing… there is no need to rush off the position into traffic or at unsafe time… the
gunner will slow and let you pass up the road.
+1 to that 
I brought chaos to one ride, when I was meant to be marking the exit of a multilane roundabout. Nowhere to stop - and to get to the final exit required lane discipline beforehand. So I’d chip in that one should plan to avoid such complex junctions altogether.
When Zander, Bikergirl400 and I did 6000 or so miles in September we used the corner-man (only 6 bikes though) but slowed right down about 2 miles ahead of a major junction so we could all move through as a group. Would probably work for up to 15 bikes.
- Following a slower rider dont get so close that they can only hear your exhaust but can’t see you.
- Lanes are not race tracks dont slip past a rider when braking into a bend in the same lane. (didnt happen on a ride out but on a solo trip around harts)
- Most important ride at your own pace and stay safe and you’ll enjoy another day out.
Be careful if you the front man… cos if you wazz off into the distance and ANYONE follows you, you can be done for inciting stupidity (although I’m sure the legal name is probably far more sensible)… it just means that if anything goes wrong with anyone following your lead… accident, death, criminality or even just speeding to keep up with you, you can be held legally accountable… s’true… if slightly kiljoyish…
That last point, if true, is sobering…
I don’t know what you two fellas are on about. :Whistling:
I know that myself, and other regular leaders of rideouts here, do all we can to make our rides as safe as possible, and many of the above suggestions have been implemented by us. I’ve noticed that many accidents are by a lone rider within the group, making a silly unprovoked mistake. The cornerman system, when properly implemented, does prevent mad riding situation, on the whole. 
Good point. I’ve often had to revise a planned route because it went through a junction too complicated to be safely marked.
Something to add for advertised rides is the planned route. I’ve found this to be beneficial for some, who like to know where we’re all going beforehand.
If you hit system critical and are in a wee or crash situation then pull over for a wee and make sure the tail gunner sees you (usually mid wee) so that they will either wait or mark the following corner until you catch up. You will usually be joined by fellow riders who have also hit system critcal.
Always wee in preference to crashing even if it means the entire ride witness said wee during a fly past.
Actualy convoy drills are if the person behind you is dropping back you slow down till they catch up, the person in front should see this and do the same… so on and so forth, keeping the pack together. The lead has a flag and the tail has a different coloured flag so you know who is the last and first in the convoy. Everyone has a route map so if you do get split by other traffic you know where to go… And who wants to go at the slowest persons pace? 
I did a bikesafe course very recently and asked the copper about this and he laughed at me and told me it was a load of b0ll0cks :laugh: