Got 3 points - Need some answers...

Off-topic
1

Right so off the bat, I would put my hands up if I did something wrong however I didn’t, hence the shock of the whole incident…

I was on E road at the lights with a friend, police bike next to me… light turn green I take off gently then he puts his lights on…

I pull over, my friend doesn’t… but my friend rode off normal speed so I know he didn’t hear the siren ( he would of stopped 100% )

Police comes up next to me and says turn the bike off… I did so… Then he says " Give me your keys "

I said no…

He said get off the road, which I did as I was close to the pavement, and then he says

" Go stand over there by the shops away from the bike "

At this point, knowing I’ve not done anything wrong. I said what are you on about mate.

Long story short he gets off his bike and starts screaming and shouting about who’s running the show and who’s got power, how he can arrest me for not moving over the pavement and keeping me locked up for 12 hours… All the usual crap tbh.

Then he says right, cause you didn’t give me your keys this stop isn’t gonna be in your favour.

I’m gonna give you 3 points for wreckless driving, little confused I asked how ? He ignored me, I already at this point knew this wasn’t gonna be a pleasent stop so I wanted to collect whatever paper work and juSt go to court. Few minutes later he changed the points from wreck less driving to speeding in park lane…

Whatever floats his boat, someone approached me after the stop when he rode off and asked me why the cop was shouting and screaming so much… Said your guess is good as mine but would you be willing to come court and tell the judge about this officer and his bad day… They said yes. .

So my quesion,

Do I by law have to hand over my key ? As he threatened me and said when he asks I HAVE to…

When stopped, off the public road standing on a pavement, do I have to play puppet and stand where he wants me to stand if I’m not causing an obstruction to anything or anyone ?

Also upon giving me points do they have the right to take a picture of you ?

To top it all off, he wrote out some paper work saying I was driving in excess speed and asked me to sign it, I said I’m not signing anything and clearly further upset he decides to pick on my number plate also.

Rant over. Any answers to the questions would be great. Regardless of it all ill be seeing him in court with my independent witness and fellow rider.

2

First question would be did you see any id? Was the paperwork proper official, do you have it?
Could it be a new way to get your keys and bike? He gets you away from the bike and his mate comes along side you and takes the bike and they both shoot off.

I would report it to the police so they have your side for if it does go to court

3

If it does get to court, I wouldn’t turn up if I was the police officer. Good luck and sorry that you were treated this way. Really does make you question their priorities between scrotes and people legally enjoying their machines.

4

Get your mate to testify for you. I had a not dissimilar encounter where the officer lied and he phucked himself off with his own evidence.

Shame it’s the bad stories that come to light…

5

I would be filling out the form from the website below.
As you have a witness and your friend as well he can vouch for you.

Officer sounds like a proper twat and power hungry.

If you got the paperwork you will have everything you need, have you checked with the local station if that officer works there?

Normal stops don’t ask for keys unless your high risk.

https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/complaints

6

I will no doubt be going through ipcc as I’ve gone through them before. Just wondering if anyone knew whether they have actual power to take keys as he literally said word for word…

" Next time I ask for your keys you give it, next time I say stand over there you listen, I’m in charge here I have the power "

I kid you not that sentence got repeated 5 times with different wording lol.

No doubt he was power tripping and in all fairness I think he wanted to pull us both over for plates which I wouldn’t of argued, when my friend carried on riding and he didn’t get my key to then go chasing my friend, he took his frustration out on me.

I’ll try citizens advice bureau I suppose to see if they have some answers but prefer if someone here knows their law etc…

Thank you all for the responses

7

Speak to TC on here, he is our resident legal expert :slight_smile:

8

I’ll ask a friend who is a police officer.

But traffic cops are another level, will ask traffic cop next time I come across one.
Probably next week.

9

A non traffic cop won’t know the answer. I have a couple of coppers on my football team and I asked them a traffic related question and they wasn’t 100% certain as they don’t deal with it on a day to day basis.

10

First of all the twat that stopped you cannot do you for reckless driving.  That offence was replaced in 1988 by dangerous driving, but for both dangerous and careless driving, it has to be proved that your standard of riding fell well beow the standard expected of a reasonably safe and competent rider or driver.

Based on what you have said, he would have insufficient evidence to secure a conviction, unless of course there is more to the story than maybe you are letting on (and I am not suggesting anything dishonest on your part I promise).

The copper can sieze the keys if…

1.  He believed you were likely to abscond and do a runner, but he would have t have reasonable suspicion

2.  The vehicle was stolen or uninsured and it was being seized prior to being put on the back of of a recovery vehicle

3.  The vehicle was detained for the purpose of detecting further evidence, for example to conduct a search for drugs or other illegal substances or stolen property.

4,  Suspicion of drink/drug driving in order to prevent the potential offender from driving further.

5.  For the purpose of carrying out a full vehicle examination of road worthiness

In most of these situations he would have to tell you why he required you to hand over the keys.

In your case he had no reasonable cause to demand that you hand over the keys and I would therefore suggest that his actions were unreasonable and unlawfull.

As far as his behaviour is concerned, as already mentioned, he should be the subject of a formal complaint.  There is no need for behaviour like that, given that ultimately if your riding had been that bad, he always has the option of putting you before the courts.

As for arresting you/  Provided you acted reasonably, any arrest would have resulted in him being made to look very foolish, but make sure that this is all included in the complaint to the IPCC.

Hope that helps

11

Are you sure he really was a copper?

Anyone stopping me and asking for my keys would make alarm bells ring!

12

Was the police officer this guy?

13

I would have told him to get fucked…wouldn’t be the first time the old bill have had a mouth full from me.
They can ask you to turn the bike off, remove they key and step off the bike. Anything past that and he’s taking the piss. Well done for or giving him the slap he deserves.

14

Oh I do hate it when individuals give an entire profession a bad name. I’ve got to say that all cops I’ve met have been very good, but I know there are bad ones out there. Definatly put in a complaint about him. Did you get his badge number?

15

Appreciate all the answers chaps, it’s not to say I’ve got anything against police officers I train with a few of them at my gym but none are traffic cops…

Tc, I do wish I had a go pro as his initial issue with me was the wreckless riding he mentioned, after I asked why, he ignored me and started typing away at his little pad, then changed his mind and said speeding ( guessing due to what you mentioned in regards to proof etc ) genuinely not hiding anything from the story unless you wanna hear more about him talking about why he was in charge.

As for asking for my keys the only thing that comes close would of been me being likely to abscond which is instantly out the window seeing as how I pulled over yet my friend carried on riding ( not realising the police flashed us both ) I respected his every demand of turning my bike off, taking the key out etc, just didn’t hand him the keys.

I have his badge number, oh I also remembered he said the next time he wants me to stand away from my bike like few shops down as he mentioned, me falling to do so will be me obstructing justice and he would keep me locked up till the end of his shift whilst he had a nice warm cup of tea… ( word for word )

I think this all literally falls down to him wanting to give both me and my friend tickets for our plates, me refusing him my keys just ticked him off.

His claim that I was speeding on park lane when in reality I was stuck filtering through traffic is laughable…

None the less ill have all these things documented and prepped for court.

16

Ah and finally… Do police bikes have cameras on them ?

If so I’d like to make a request for a copy of it, I’m guessing he didn’t as the first thing he would of said would of been…

" I have you on camera "

But just in case he does have it and didn’t wanna mention it…

17

If he’s doing you for speeding then he needs to have your speed recorded on a calibrated device, which it doesn’t sound like he did. All sounds very fishy!

18
Ah and finally... Do police bikes have cameras on them ?

If so I’d like to make a request for a copy of it, I’m guessing he didn’t as the first thing he would of said would of been…

" I have you on camera "

But just in case he does have it and didn’t wanna mention it…

NeverSkipLegDay
Not all Police bikes have cameras.  However, this is something else you can raise as part of the complaint.
If he's doing you for speeding then he needs to have your speed recorded on a calibrated device, which it doesn't sound like he did. All sounds very fishy! NorthernBiker
Speed must be checked by a calibrated device but it does not have to be recorded.  If for example it was a following check, then the speed coud be measured against a calibrated speedo and the copper would be regarded as having coroborated the evidence.  Only some devices actually record, s don't make too much play as many do about speed having been recorded as there is no legal requirement, and also bear in mind that there is also the option of reporting for speed dangerous which is an offence based on evidence of opinion and has no requirement for speed to have been checked.

If the speed is checked on a follow, then unless it is for speed dangerous, then coppers have to follow for a minimum of 3/10 of a mile or 1 mile on a Motorway and then give the speed range between x MPH and y mph unless a steady or constant speed is maintained.

The threat to arrest is just that a threat.  The comment about throwing you in a cell whilst he has a cup of tea is drivel.  The custody Sgt would never allow it, and to be fair in the Met they have enough to do without this sort of caper, and to throw you in a cell to rot so to speak is prohibited under PACE.

The last point is that if he claims he is reporting you for excess speed (which I would question given that you were filtering), it does not sound like he gave you an NIP which he should have done verbally rather than post it out to you.  

Did he say “You will be reported for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for the offence of excess speed”? If not, then no verbal NIP given (although this would be difficult to disprove other than by discrediting everything else he said and did), and he would be required to get a written NIP sent out to you within 14 days, but the verbal NIP nullifies the need for a written one.

If you are being summonsed to go to court, let me know, I can put you in touch with someone who can assist you in court.

19

I would have tried to record the encounter on a iphone. I think you’re allowed to do that.

20

What a fucking idiot that cop was, he should get laid more often. Try to complicate his life as much as you legally and possibly can throwing a shit load of appeals his way