From yesterday's Evening Standard...

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/i-will-never-forget-the-night-scooter-thieves-terrorised-my-family-george-trefgarne-a3433411.html

Yeah I read that… I did agree until this  “…As for we bike riders, we too should have a legal duty to lock up our bikes with not just one but two strong locks, lest we lose our insurance or licence…”

It’s good to have people highlighting the issue, but we are already following enough obligation and laws and paying enough on our insurances to be forced, by law, to carry locks and chains at all times… It’s time for police to step up, us riders are already doing more than enough. 

It is an interesting point, though, that by badly-securing your bike you’re not just leaving yourself open to it being stolen, but enabling crimes using it. 

I’d like Florida’s castle doctrine law here in the UK. Leaving me at liberty to shoot these miscreants if they mess in my property

But then what is badly securing? Should it be compulsory to buy 200+ worth of chains?

Surely the onus is on manufacturers to improve security and build this in to the design and security features and to government initiatives to reduce crime? You can’t put all the onus on consumers through the excuse of insurance. It avoids the issue at heart and tries the plaster approach 


But then what is badly securing? Should it be compulsory to buy 200+ worth of chains?

Surely the onus is on manufacturers to improve security and build this in to the design and security features and to government initiatives to reduce crime? You can’t put all the onus on consumers through the excuse of insurance. It avoids the issue at heart and tries the plaster approach 

Serrisan
Car manufactures changed how cars were secured when car theft got out of control years ago, though all that did was increase criminals breaking into homes and stealing the keys. But did cut some of the car theft crime.

It’s a pretty shocking story, but there is no single magic bullet that will improve matters.

Yes, manufacturers could do more: e.g. Datatag and trackers on all new bikes as standard. Better designs to help carry security chains etc. Carrying a big chain is often impractical unless you have a top box. Many bikes used to have slots for a D-lock under the seat, but many moderns bikes have little storage space now.

By making it compulsory to lock your bike up with a huge chain, you introduce so many issues: proving to insurance you bike was chained up (assuming you still have the chain after the theft). What quality of chain is minimum acceptable? An Oxford neckless or an Almax 19mm? - if the bar is too low, it will do little to stop thieves and just create more hassle for victims. Too high, and you’ve just created a tonne of hassle for people trying to carry 15Kg+ on sportsbike…

As with many public services, there have been years of cut backs, streamlining and cost cutting. Prisons are bursting at the seams and magistrates are being encouraged to avoid them such when sentencing. We’re really just seeing the fall out from this. We really, need more enforcement, better deterrents and more effective rehabilitation approaches. Compounding all of this we have an increasing rich/poor divide, a disillusioned youth who have grown up on mass media telling them they have failed at life unless they have the latest, greatest gadgets. Falling pay (in real terms), crappy jobs with little long term guarantees, little hope of getting better off and incubated in a culture lets them believe they can have what you want now. It’s all a bit broken really.

How does he think two strong locks would be a deterrent to violent thugs with an angle grinder, they’d just be there twice as long kicking at your door.

Wonder if the proposed summits would be open to public?

Kinda ironic concluding about locks after the description of the angle grinder being used I thought.

I’m buying 2 more locks. Just for fun.

Car manufactures changed how cars were secured when car theft got out of control years ago, though all that did was increase criminals breaking into homes and stealing the keys. But did cut some of the car theft crime.
If you frequent car forums, as I do, you will see that stealing cars continues but now the scrots break into the owners' houses and demand the car keys with menace; sometimes holding the owners' children hostage.

I’ve read many posts on car forums now saying the owners of nice cars purposefully leave the keys clearly visible on their hall tables for this reason; they would prefer to lose their insured car quickly and painlessly rather than have their family threatened.

As with all law and order questions, it is not up to the victims to take action, it is up to the law enforcement system (law makers, law policers and the justice system) to deal with it. As with most problems in this country, you can probably find underfunding at the heart of it; in this case underfunding of the whole criminal justice system.

There’s a lot of under funding. There’s a lot of rich people and companies.

I knew of a house where a Merc and a Porsche were taken overnight, house was broken into and keys taken from the kitchen.

Owner was not covered as his insurance stipulated that the keys had to be locked in the safe overnight. 

People should read the policies they sign

[quote] I knew of a house where a Merc and a Porsche were taken overnight, house was broken into and keys taken from the kitchen. Owner was not covered as his insurance stipulated that the keys had to be locked in the safe overnight.  --- Rusty99 [/quote]

People should read the policies they sign

WildBoy
He did but took the risk anyway !

a family member has a nice double garage for his car but he insures it as kept on the road in case of that one time he doesn’t bother and it gets nicked his insurance will be invalid


a family member has a nice double garage for his car but he insures it as kept on the road in case of that one time he doesn't bother and it gets nicked his insurance will be invalid
me_groovy
And similarly, I don't specify my Pragmasis chain on my insurance policy, to avoid hassle and awkward questions if on the odd time I don't use the chain it gets pinched.

1,2,3,4 how many locks is enough?

With portable angle grinders and the thugs threatening anyone who tries to intervene what more can we ‘legally’ do.