Fred Hill runs (Ace Feb 10th)

Shamelessly copied from the MAG page. Unity Support Riders will be marshalling. See you at one of these rides:

Events - Fred Hill Runs 2008
Fred Hill Runs 2008 - A Question of Choice

The example set by Fred Hill in defying the compulsory helmet law throughout the nineteen seventies and eighties was extraordinary.
Nowhere in the world has anyone made such exceptional sacrifices in the name of bikers’ freedoms.
A former army dispatch rider fighting for freedom in WW2, Fred was incensed by the compulsory helmet law.
He rode everywhere in an old beret, collecting hundreds of tickets.
Fred’s refusal to pay the fines for helmet-less riding led to 31 jail sentences.
Once in the dock of a magistrate’s court where a lady magistrate berated his lawlessness, Fred took the opportunity to remind her that if it hadn’t been for women breaking the law some years ago, she wouldn’t be sitting where she was.

Fred was seventy four years old when, in 1984, half way through a barbaric 60 day sentence, he died from a heart attack in London’s gruesome Pentonville Prison.

Whether the helmet issue is important to you or not, we all owe it, not only to Fred but to ourselves, to sustain a ceaseless call for the reform of this outrageous legislation - MAG is not and never has been anti-helmet.
We just think it is wrong to criminalise peope who wish to exercise choice over what they ride and what they wear.

The helmet law made naff all difference to fatality rates, it’s a complete red herring.
In a country where violent yobs walk free from courts, laughing at the law, is it right or proportionate to criminalise and imprison those who just want to have choice over what they wear?
Be it dayglo, be it body armour, be it a helmet. It’s all about the same thing - choice.
Is that really too much to expect?

Fred Hill Runs 2008
Greater London MAG
Sunday February 10th

Depart from the Ace Café at 1400.
Get there earlier there will be time for tea and breakfast. We will be going to Pentonville Prison, via a circuitous route, to lay a wreath in Fred’s memory.

West Midlands MAG
Sunday February 10th

Ride in to the National Motorcycle Museum just off junction 6 of the M42, arrive at 1300. Group rides leaving from the Park Inn (Black Country MAG) at 1100 & The Bewell Head Working Mens Club, Bromsgrove (Bromsgrove MAG) at 1200.
The Unwanted MCC are organizing a ride in from the Beech Hotel, Burton Upon Trent at approx 1200.
The Boring Old Fartz will be meeting at the Tesco/ Notcutts carpark, just off Junction 4 M42 for a ride the long way round (via Lapworth) to the Museum.
Rides also from Telford & Coventry.
Web: www.westmidlandsmag.org.uk

Blackburn
Sunday February 10th

Sir Charles Napier pub, Tontine St., Blackburn leaving at 12pm, food provided for all who attend.

East Anglia MAG
Sunday Feb 10

Assemble at the Silver Ball Transport Cafe, Reed (4.5 miles south of Royston on the A10) Assemble from 11:00 to leave at 11:30 riding down to the Ace Cafe to arrive to join the main run leaving The ACE at 14:00.

Plan is to not use any motorways.
Web: http://east-anglia-region.mag-uk.org

MAG Cornwall
Sunday February 10th

10am from The Royal Standard, Gwinear, nr Camborne
Web: [email protected]

Medway MAG
Sunday February 10th

Run to the Greater London Fred Hill - Run from the Ace Cafe to Pentonville Prison.
Meet B&Q Strood at 1000
Also meet at the Holiday Inn, A2 junction East Rochester Way - Bourne Rd, Bexley at 1045
Web: http://south-east-region.mag-uk.org

Leeds MAG
Sunday February 10th

If it’s anything like last year, it will be a thoroughly well attended event. From Squires (Sherburn in Elmet) To The Sun Inn (Norwood - Nr. Otley) The run will leave Squires at 11:30am. Prompt.
The run, usually lasts around 45 minutes and goes through some fantastic countryside as it heads towards the SUN Inn, another favourite biker meeting place.
Web: www.leedsmag.org

Thames Valley MAG
Sunday February 16th

Depart Chieveley Services 12:00pm, (J13 M4/A34) near Newbury. Short stop at Pear Tree Services to regroup.
Destination Ride to Martyr’s Memorial in Broad Street, Oxford.
Followed by Thames Valley AGM and evening party.
Web: http://thames-valley-region.mag-uk.org

Have I got this right ? MAG are suggesting motorcyclists and scooterists should be free to ride without a helmet ? :ermm:

That all happened in the 70’s mate:cool:

Bet you was on a demo hey Chunks :smiley:

can someone please explain to me how come he was a hero? :ermm:

i’m all for preserving our rights 'n all but wasn’t his protest just a lickle silly/stuborn/mental/oh-look-at-me-i-need-attention seeking?

apols if i have the wrong info

No mate… it was raining;):smiley:

To answer the question why he is considered a here - let MAG explain - http://thames-valley-region.mag-uk.org/Pages/fred_hill.htm

Unfortunatly MAG’s history means the organisation is wedded to a campaign for the right for motorcyclists to reenforce the view of the public at large and the authorities that motorcyclists are reckless and irresponsible. Personally, I think campaigning for helmet choice simply discredits all our arguments for fair treatment and makes it harder for us to get changes that would make motorcycling safer, such as access to bus lanes and cycle boxes, safer road layouts, safer barriers and road furniture placing, real action against diesel etc. It seems bizarre to me that MAG should argue for the right for motorcyling to be more dangerous.

By arguing for choice MAG are arguing against a growing body of scientific literature which has shown that where helmet laws are introduced there are significant benefits both for individuals and for the costs of provising healthcare. They also show very little in the way of drawbacks and a complete debunking of myths like helmets cause neck injurioes in accidents etc.

The US has seen several states introduce helmet laws, and has many states where helmet use is optional. This allows real before and after and helmet no-helmet post crash studies to be done. The results are not ambigious. A summary is here -

http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/helmet_use.html

I notice that many MAG sites argue against the helmet law ignoring this growing body of evidence from the US and elsewhere. I know MAG argue it is about choice, but it isn’t. Studies in America and elsewhere show significant medical and social costs of not having compulsory helmet laws due to the higher level of fatalities and the higher level of serious head injuries.

exactly, i was thinking someone might come up with some amazing reason to support MAG on this one but you would have to suspend all logic

Thanks, interesting.

I’m not a spokesman for MAG, but I do have sympathies for Fred Hill’s position, so let me have a go at this one…

I support the idea of wearing a lid at all times when on a bike, but should we be forced by law to wear one?I am against smoking in restaurants and pubs, but should it be illegal for anyone to smoke at any time? (It’s probably coming)The cost of NHS treatment for so many of us eating unhealthy food is growing phenomenally, so perhaps the government should legislate to control our eating patterns. (it’s being discussed)Old cities with narrow and congested streets would see less accidents (and produce less carbon dioxide) if all vehicles only travelled at 20mph, so should Ken force all motor vehicles to be restricted to 20mph befire they are allowed into the congestion zone?You get the pattern here - should government force us to behave ‘logically’ and ‘sensibly’ in all matters in which research has shown that there is an obvious and sensible choice?

Should all choice, and every element of risk, be taken out of your hands… by law?

It’s a long and slippery slope. We all need to act like idots sometimes, even if we wouldn’t normally do it. It’s part of being human.

I know where you are coming from but I will stick to being an idiot with a good lid/leathers one and I wear a seatbelt in me car too. I do draw the line at chatting on the phone while driving though :smiley:

I understand the libertarian arguments but the argument about helmet choice was lost over 30 years ago and continually fighting a lost battle, an winnable battle, over an unpopular issue is never going to help us win the important battles now and in the future.

I never agreed with the Anti Helmet stuff from MAG all those years ago and my feelings are still pretty much the same. I hate riding without a lid.

Saying that, I did weaken a few years ago and joined MAG Sport for a year and found that to be of no use whatsoever to me.

I don’t want someone called “Action Group” representing me, it sounds aggressive, which is exactly the opposite to the image we want to get across of today’s bikers IMO:cool:

I’m definately not one for wanting more govt control, less is better obviously but the way society works now has changed, not sure why, maybe it’s a product of laws like the helmet law, people perhaps expect to be told what to do.

So new riders, given the choice, might choose not to wear one if it’s not compulsory as getting used to a lid, at least a full face helmet, takes a few weeks. Would that mean more death and serious injury ? I’d think yes so perhaps the law is a good one.

I agree with Chunky, I’d like to join a campaigning group so we can be properly represented when things like bikes in bus lanes are being debated but I’d never join a group who were campaigning for the repeal of the helmet law, that’s simply going to turn everybody off and get them nowhere, especially if they organise rides to demonstrate.

I am afraid that is very much my view.

what is the current penalty for riding with no helmet out of interest?

what happens in say the situation where your helmet is stolen/damaged and the bike is not somewhere that is safe to be left for a lenght of time (to go get/beg/borrow a helmet)

ironically, if the police see someone with no lid on, and they go to pull them over and the biker/scooter rider runs for it, they have to let them go as they’re too worried about litigation in case the person has an accident…

i dont mind wearing a crash helmet so i wont be attending.i cant see how weairng a crash helmet is a red herring and makes no difference to fatatlity rates? wot a load of boll0xFred hill run has been done to death and should be laid to rest.No disrespect to fred he fought for wot he believed in but i think Mag have got a lot more important things to waste their memebers subs on. tis why i dont do mag anymore. there is more important fights out there now.

ride without a helmet :blink: why would anyone wanna even attemp that, especially in london, even a stone flying into your head is gonna kill ya let alone a crash!

There!
I tried to be a liberal and no-one went for it! :slight_smile:

So, I’m going back to being a fascist. More tea, anyone?

The penalty for riding a motorbike without a crash helmet is FPN £30 + no points, which is the same as not wearing a seat belt.We (the police) often get calls for people riding around without crash helmets, demanding immediate action…I can never recall in 20 years service ever having a call about someone not wearing a seat belt!If you had your lid stolen and tried to ride home, you would almost certainly get stopped, and given an FPN. You would stick out like a sore thumb… Your best (legal) course of action would be to get the bike recovered, although I’m not sure that your breakdown insurance would cover it, and I believe a recovery runs out at about £120 + vat… so in effect you could afford to get stopped 4 times before the cost of the recovery was less than the fines :)We don’t necessarilly get pursuits terminated just because it’s a moped/bike with a rider without a lid, however we would need a more substantial reason to pursue than just the lid issue