I often wonder what’s the point in democracy when it just encourages people to become masterful at manipulation, lies, deceit and general other crookedness. I think in principle democracy is possibly the best design, it give a real representation of how the majority feel - however the majority of people are voting under false pretences. They’re all guilty of it, Labour, tories, lib dems :P. The more extreme parties probably tout such radical ideas because they know they’ll never have to deliver on them, like the BNP saying how they’ll cut all foreign donations and so on - it’s such bull-sh*t, not to digress too much but we’re living in a global community, the idea of isolating yourself from the world ain’t going to happen.

There’s wars going off all over the world through people wanting to vote and have a say in their communities and running of their country. On face value it looks like a very noble thing, if not a little heart warming, then if you step back and look at the bigger picture the view isn’t as clear it’s often presented - and here lies the problem. Often what’s presented isn’t actually how things are. It’s the oldest trick in the book, anyone how knows a little bit about history will know that it’s been going on. There are countless amounts of examples from nazi germany, the soviet regime and north Korea, on how they duped their population into radical ways through mass censorship, manipulation and control. Of course the same thing doesn’t happen here does it?

Well there certainly is more freedom in the UK and europe, I can’t deny that but just within the last decade strange things have been happening, weird laws and a passionate lust for total control has emerged. The age of quick information has showed how news articles are quickly distorted to scratch the backs of their bed-fellows, to give favour to the string pullers and to create an illusion of what’s really going on.

I short, I find democracy a bit of a game really, like a ritual that people go through, when nothing really changes, parties will simply flip-flop on their policies and say anything to get power. Imagine having a job whereby you just simply decided to go against all the company policies? You wouldn’t last very long, why should government be any different?

Now I’m not under any illusion that it’s black and white, the world is a very complicated and chaotic place, a lot of things change, but I don’t believe that people should just be blatantly lied to all the time in order to score points for these “wharf rats”.

people living in democracy are scared by a question like this

well our current form of democracy is pretty flawed.

Totalitarian dictatorships are soooooooo much better. :ermm:

Democracy means nothing when public opinion can be bent and crafted by those in power. May I recommend Noam Chomsky, “The Manufacture of Consent”. Marketing, spin doctoring, propaganda, no matter what you call it, it works. Billions are spent to shape your opinion and make you think it’s your own.

Or if public opinion is to the contrary, like when 2 MILLION Londoners marched against the invasion of Iraq, you can say what George Bush said: “Isn’t it great that in a free country, these people can voice their opinions”. Of course, those in power are free to ignore it.

And, what are you gonna do about it? Diddly squat. And this is the problem exactly. The British (as well as my fellow Germans) will moan and bitch on the Internet while the French would already be busy setting sh*t on fire.

We need more of that “Non merci” spirit, more direct action, more uprising. Stringing up the odd corrupt banker or politician from a lamp-post might help making the others think twice.

Never forget that those who have the money, have the power. Look around Europe, you see the cathedrals – architectural statements by those who had money and power at the time: the church. The pyramids are a powerful statement that the pharao had absolutely everyone by the balls at the time.

Walk around London and see the Cathedrals of Capitalism, built as glass and concrete statements, as to say: here, marvel at the greatness of our power, billions of pounds being shifted every day, as to where nobody knows but surely not in your direction.

Thanks for the Chomsky lead. I’m going to have to check that out.

The thing I find amazing about our current situation, vis a vis democracy, is that we have a government made up of Lib Dems, who explicitly campaigned to oppose rises in tuition fees for higher education, and Tories, who explicitly campaigned not to carry out root and branch “reform” of the health service. Both groups have now completely broken these promises. This means that the basic principle of democracy, in which voters select politicians because they stand for principles that the voters would like to support, has been destroyed.

We might as well be living in a dictatorship, for all the difference the democratic process has had on what the current government is doing. Whitehall is littered with the skid-marks of politicians doing u turns, and now that protests are being highjacked by a violent minority, the majority of the population will associate protest with violence and not protest.

We have been conned. We should not accept this. Is there any other walk of life where you would accept people saying they will do one thing and then doing precisely the opposite?

I know we all have a degree of cynicism about politicians, but this is off the scale. They are liars. Straightforward, simple liars. And they have taken over the country with their lies.

Come on people. If a party campaigned to support motorcycling, got into power with your support, then banned the riding of motorcylces would you stand for it? It really is that simple.

Father Christmas for President!

All the major political parties are hard wired into the neo-liberal capitalist system - look at how they have shifted the blame for the financial melt down from the perpertrators (unregulated capitalists) to the people (us) in the form of our public services and the less well off in our society.

Not only have us ordinary tax payers baled out the selfish rich greedy pigs who got us into this mess - we are also getting the blame for it and are getting shafted.

We need proper grass roots left wing politics again - modern comms like the net mean that we can get things organised and up and running very quickly and present a major challenge to the corrupt, stale political status quo in a relatively short time. :slight_smile:

democracy vs totalitarianism, white vs black, perfect vs all bad… your brain has no room for anything more complicated than that:)

Yes it does, but yours fails to grasp simple sarcasm.

Not scared. Just complacent - they’ve heard it all before :doze:

If you make me Emperor, I shall correct all wrongs and run the country fairly.

But I will need a very big house. Palace maybe, in the interests of the country.

WHERE DO I VOTE!!! :smiley:

Well history has shown that dictators change like the wind, communisum is all but dead - and doesn’t work in the last two bastions of that system. You can’t run a country by fear of reprisals from the state. Democrocy isn’t perfect, nothing ever will be, but its a darn sight better than the alternatives. If anybody has rose tinted spec’s over the others - please feel free to go n live in those nations.

God this is depressing just before christmas. Who’s stupid idea was it to post this crud, Scruge???

Communism would work if people weren’t err… people
It’s an excellent ideal, but greed, avarice and corruption are powerful things, and those who end up administering the system will always give in to them
I’m afraid democracy is as good as it gets until we can find a way that truly gives every citizen an equal voice and equal opportunities in life