Cuts to public spending?

I keep on hearing about “Cuts to public spending” and I recently just lost a job due to “cuts in public spending”, my job was funded by the local health authority who “cut their spending”. However there’s been massive cuts in the private sector too, I heard a few years back that Labour promised to increase public spending in areas hardest hit by the recession and lack of employment. This was to provide people who were out of work jobs to do, like in healthcare, social care and council jobs.

Now there’s still private firms going belly up and they want to decrease public spending? What kind of jobs are they hoping people will get?

I heard that the Tories want voluntary organisations to take over certain jobs with unpaid staff who volunteer their time to help the community and society - sounds a bit like a communist idea. Eitherway, I can’t seem to get my head around it, what is the UK supposed to do for it’s future?

Well I suppose if you work in the public sector cuts might seem a bit harsh, but as someone who never has personally I think the smaller the state the better in fact cut it to the bone because at the end of the day it is being paid for by people who have to be economically useful. Public sector remuneration has got totally out of control and needs to be seriously reigned in along with the timebomb of generous pensions.
Another thing that I found unbelievable was that the person in charge of the BBC iPlayer is on a salary of something like £450K - I mean that is a joke right, that isn’t even for a technical role. The problem is that there is no competition in the public sector and once you’re in, especially in a senior position, you are practically unsackable and your salary and benefits just rise like a meteorological balloon.
Problem is when the state becomes so big such a large part of the electorate are dependent in one way or another that its difficult to do anything about it.

As you said, you have never worked in the public sector.

I agree with the BBC but it isn’t actually true of public sector. Money from the health authority and home office is used to fund various community projects, such as drug harm reduction, community outreach projects, childcare projects, improving areas of social deprivation, getting back to work schemes…etc. These are nearly all run by third party organisations, not statutory. These organisations are pitted against each other to compete for pots of money and they are assigned money according to their outcomes on the community and society. It is not like the NHS and so on. These third party organisations are only commissioned money based on qualitative value and need. A project I worked on improved clinical outcomes and there was a need for it but still funding was withdrawn on a service for people whilst councillors in the area creamed off hundreds of thousands of pounds for themselves.

I definitely agree that ‘state’ jobs should go and virtually everything should be run by organisations competing to provide better services.

Hear hear G…

I’ve worked in the public sector for 17+ years and I haven’t seen my salary rise massively, let alone being attached to a weather balloon. For the last two and a half years I have lived in a house share to save money, I recently moved into a rented one bed flat in SE London…that just goes to show how astronomically overpaid I am!

As for the cuts to public spending, the Govt will have to make cuts in its attempts to reduce the deficit, however it is trying to do it in such a way as to reduce the negative impact on the recovery. It is common practice for the state to invest in public sector projects (roads, buildings, developments) during a recession to help those companies that would normally have to close down due to lack of private investment, therefore laying off all their staff.

Its a delicate balancing act between clawing back money to reduce our negative situation but not doing it at such a rate as to stifle growth and spending by private individuals and organisations, something the Tories don’t seem to give a damn about, all they want is the money paid back and stuff the people who suffer as a consequence!

Its all very well to cut one’s outgoings to a minimum and pay off as much as you can of one’s debt as a private individual, I know how difficult it is as I’ve spent the last 4 years attempting it, but a completely different kettle of fish when it comes to doing that with an entire nation!

Oh and just to add, yes I do know there are still huge inefficiencies in the way the public sector is run and yes it could still save a lot of wasted money, which in turn could be spent on more worthwhile things, however the whole behemoth that is Govt is run by PEOPLE and we are all fundamentally the same, public or private sector employed. Talking to my friends in the private sector there is an equivalent amount of waste, inefficiency and poor decision making, RBS anyone?!?

Hey, I forgot, I worked as a Hospital porter in the summer after my A Levels and even joined the union. Does that count?

The problem is that you’re only talking about management in the public sector being overpaid. The staff who are actually doing the work are generally pretty poorly paid.
If you take a look at the NHS, over 50% of the staff aren’t medically trained in any way. These are the ones who are generally overpaid for doing nothing jobs. The staff like the Nurses and Doctors are pretty poorly paid for the work and the hours they put in whereas the management are far better paid for sitting in offices doing pretty much squat!
When it comes to public sector cuts, it’s generally the ‘useful’ staff that find themselves out of work as the management look after themselves and each other!

As for public sector remuneration being out of control. I currently work in the public sector and my wages were about 50% higher when I was in the private sector. My current salary is about £23k which includes my allowances for working unsocial hours, namely shiftwork covering nights, weekends and public holidays with no extra pay. Not really a good wage, is it?

Hey Rusty, you are absolutely right I was talking about management, CEO, quangos etc, apologies if I sounded as though I meant also those people who actually do things.
I was reading recently how they send out pen pushers from the MoD in Whitehall to Afghanistan and where they sit in some heavily protected fortress nowhere near any action and get paid a fortune for ‘danger’ whilst the soldiers on the front line struggle to support their families in poor quality accommodation in the UK. Of course you can argue that that is what soldiers signed up for and pen pushers didn’t but there has to be a line drawn somewhere and in my view it isn’t in the right place

So the National Debt is suddenly top of the agenda? I wonder at what point the powers-that-be decided that now was the time to tackle it- why not 5, 10, 15 years ago? Maybe it was just ignored for as long as possible in the same way that individuals try not to think too much about the personal debt they have got themselves into.

In my opinion and looking at the enormity of the figures its not going to go away in the immediate future so why can’t the parties put forward a ten year plan rather than arguing over what they should or shouldn’t do in the next 6 months.

Yet again the Election is being fought on short-term point-scoring and the outcome will yet again have more to do with the weather on Election Day or whose wife is pregnant than the big issues we expect our representatives to be tackling.

Personally I’d rather have a job and pay more tax than not have a job at all. Our ‘private sector’ office has been on an agreed ten percent pay reduction for the last year and it does hurt the pocket but as I said I’d rather have a job. I’m fed up with public sector workers at whatever level thinking they are still somehow entitled to year on year pay rises in this climate.

If the government, whoever they turn out to be, treat us as adults and lay the cards on the table then maybe they would get some public support. We’re crying out for a plan, a big idea, that people can sign up to. It’s not good enough to say ‘we are entering a period of austerity’- they need to show us how they intend to help us through to the other end.

From what I’ve seen so far the Lib Dems are making the most sense on the economy but TBH choosing between 3 parties peddling pretty much the same thing is like choosing from chips, french fries or potato wedges. What we need is a government more representative of the people and to do that we should start again with the Electoral system- but what hope is there of that happening- about as much hope as eliminating the National Debt?

Once again, you speak about something you obviously know **** all about.

The ‘pen-pushers’ that go out there volunteer to put themselves in dangerous positions, not in ‘heavily protected fortresses’. They go out into the communities WITH the soldiers. They don’t get guns, or a butt load of training, or even a load of money, but they go because they want to help the front line as much as possible. And all the while people back in the UK have a go at them for taking away money from the troops. I’d like to see you do such a thankless job, and put up with the lack of respect and support that goes with it. Oh, and check out the remuneration for a forces bloke compared to a civvie - the average forces bloke on his arse in London NOT being shot at gets about 4 times what the civvie gets doing the same job. Is that a better use of money? No.

As for the private sector pain, public sector pleasure argument that the media is full of, in the Government Department I work in was subject to an imposed three year pay deal which was worth 2% per year. That is the cost of all increases across the organisation. That deal meant 2%/1%/0% over the last three years for a lot of staff. Inflation was 5% in the first of those years, and 3% in the latest year. The money freed up from the 2% a year was then used to boost the pay of the very lowest paid.

Of course there is waste in the public sector, just as there is waste in the private sector - my new mobile phone company has had to spend £100s in the last few days in providing support because their salesman was so incompetent and sold me a phone/sim combination that was incompatible.

But waste elimination doesn’t mean you save money in the public sector because the public sector doesn’t make and sell widgets. In the private sector, things are simple. There is a market for 100 widgets, halve the cost of making 100 widgets and you make more profit. If you sack a load of people in the process, don’t worry, the tax payer will pick up the financial costs, and society will pick up the social costs, but the shareholders will be better off.

In the public sector reducing waste doesn’t always mean you save money (it can mean more cost). For example, say you have a load of doctors and nurses who are giving people hip replacements. They are not very efficient and only do 50 in a year. Say you eliminate a load of sick leave, and make them work harder and better. Now they can do 100 hip replacements. You have not saved a penny by eliminating waste (indeed, now they are doing more operations it may cost you more in support services, theatre time, hospital beds, etc). You could instead sack half the doctors and nurses, which would save you a load of doctors’ and nurses’ salaries, but you would still only be doing 50 hip replacements and those people who can’t get around due to dodgy hips don’t come cheap.

Those extra hip replacements mean more people will be able to work, there will be reduced benefit costs, and fewer people will fall and injure themselves further and fewer people will be giving up work to be carers and so weakening the labourforce. But none of this will appear in the balance sheet of the hospital departmental who has been more efficient. You have made the system more efficient, but the bean counters will not be able to see a single bean in the bottom line that has been saved.

So of course you want to eliminate waste by making those workers do 100 hip replacements instead of 50, but you don’t save any money that can be claimed as savings unless you sack people. If you sack people you are now doing fewer hip replacements meaning more people who can’t work, higher benefit costs, more people leaving productive jobs paying tax to be informal carers on benefits etc.

Talking about waste is just politicians being lazy and not talking about what they will really cut.

Public sector … I can understand fully why money needs to be watched but imo too many things such as the emergency servicesa re being run as a business now when they are not.

It appears to me that the saving of money can be more important than caring and saving people.

My opinion only, public sector jobs and private sector can never be compared, completely different.

I get the hint that you have a strong opinion on this ! :smiley:
I don’t really care who else is out there with the troops and what their wages are, I just wish that the boys and girls out there had every bit of kit they needed, were given a decent wage and didn’t have to pay tax when on ops.

[quote]
BusaBaz (04/04/2010)

Yeah, cos I am one of those pen pushers. :wink:

We wish the guys and girls had the best of everything too, like the yanks - but until the arsehole treasury cough up it’s not happening.

[quote]
Pskyho (04/04/2010)

Based on the size of budget which is allocated to the MOD per year and the amount it still manages to waste on failed IT projects I wouldn’t necessarily be looking at the Treasury to cough up yet more money, I would be looking at the bean counters at the MOD spending the money it is given more wisely?!?

Wasn’t there a story just recently about the MOD spending millions on upgrading some of its vehicles (tanks or helicopters I think? ) and then locking them away in a warehouse never to be used again?!?

A Times article on money wasted on upgrading troop carriers which can only be used for training purposes.

An FT article on a recent Parliamentary report condeming MOD waste

To me a National Health Service should provide the number of hip replacements (or other treatments) required by the population at the point of need. If you need a hip replacement you shouldn’t be waiting in a queue or until a backlog has been cleared- you should just get the treatment pretty much as soon as you need it. If other countries with State funded medical care can manage this as a default position then why can’t we?

Of course things can be more efficient, and total expenditure is not the only factor, but most comparable countries spend more on healthcare than we do as shown by the ONS and the independent researchers in the House of Common Library.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/healthaccounts/international_comparison_total_health_expenditure.asp

http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsg-02584.pdf

I agree things need to be more efficient, but we aren’t allowed to do the things that would help. Obviously can’t go into too much detail, but where there’s politics common sense goes out the window.

Calling us ‘bean counters’ and ‘pen pushers’ really gets on my tits though - we are not the ones to blame 90% of the time.