Covering the front brake?

I have done swerve braking in the car, narrowly avoided a couple of accidents that would have been entirely my fault by doing so, but not on the bike. I am not sure swerving and braking on a bike is a good thing, do one or the other, because doing both will likely result in the bike falling over. I would like to hear another more experienced persons opinions on that, but placing so much pressure on a tiny piece of tire and then turning that tire so that less of it is in contact with the road, seems like a recipe for disaster.

^^^ I was waiting for someone to say that lol. I was thinking car when I wrote it but how about trail braking?

Agreed,
Tyres, pressures, temperatures, speeds, surfaces etc - so many variables, but generally if you ask a gripping tyre to start to brake AND lean - You’re going to have problems

i cover the brake with two fingers but swap to four if i consciously want to stop in a hurry.

i dont remember if i was covering the brake when i lost the front or not though :ermm:

I dont think Ive ever used all four fingers on the front lever in the 18 months Ive had the CB. Never had the need. Brakes are excellent.

I generally cover the front brake most of the time…and the clutch…it feels comfortable that way and like Martin said less chance of grabbing too much…it works for me anyway and it feels natural like that…

Think covering the clutch comes from riding too many two strokes when younger :wink:

your lucky I only have a working index finger & thumb on my left hand so covering the clutch isn’t possible I need to hold on

the other three stumps can get in the way sometimes so I have to be careful

I’d hate to think that I couldn’t brake and swerve at the same time if I needed to. I practice it when I can and try to do it as often as possible, at least once a week on a very quiet road. hopefully then it will be a natural response and I will do the right thing. I have only had to do it once in anger and all ended fine.

If tyres have 100% grip in the dry on a good road, then you can use 70% for braking and 30% for steering before it all goes wrong, add in wet, or poor condition roads and you might only be left with 75% grip, so you balance accordingly 50% brakes and 25% steering. Clearly this means that trying to steer with the anchors slammed on will end in tears, but backing off the anchors and adding a bit of lean is very possible.

I start with E stops in a straight line and progress to swerves as my feel increases, it’s surprising what tyres will do so long as your inputs are progressive. Is it perverse to find full on anchor slamming Estops quite a lot of fun?

And kaos, why would turning mean less contact area? the profile of your tyres is matched to the geometry of your bike, so when leant over the contact patch should remain very similar. poor tyre pressures will shag this up good and proper though I would imagine.

According to this diagram the area increases!

O the good old days of seizing pistons and cast iron cylinders. :smiley:

Cheers Dave. Stuff like this is in “'Roadcraft” & makes a good read. One other thing to consider is that if you come off the front brake too quickly, in order to steer, the weight wont be over the front any more. Coming off the brakes gradually means the forks stay somewhat compressed and keep the front tyre in contact with the road.
Also I sometimes drag the back brake through a tightening bend, if ive gone in too hot, to pull the bike around.

im more or less always covering the brake, its a preference thing i think! i wont get caught up in to does and donts and best practice its just how i ride ive never had any issues from doing so. :slight_smile:

in fact my profile pic - im mid corner and covering the front and clutch aswell! haha

i tend to cover clutch and brake, specially round town, but sometimes when i’ve done a trackday i still do it!

habit i suppose, stems from riding off road when i was younger, from courier work, and generally alot of city riding.

i know what a few others mean as well about not having a finger on the actual lever, you can see me doing it here in this pic.

Habits !>?

Same here, trying to train it out and it worked well last week:

I always cover the front brake.

I use it to measure changes in throttle position… And it’s also nice in case I need to brake hard, or drag on a little on the front, it can be done nice and easy.

Interesting point about the panic breaking though… I suppose it would be best for a learner to be fully fisting the throttle, and then reaching for the brake when it’s required. I spent a lot of time duringmy first couple of years riding practicing my slow manoeuvres and emergency stops, I think that helps me avoid panic breaking etc…

I also fit stubby levers to my bikes, as I like to keep two fingers on both levers as all times and stubby leavers allow me to pull all the way back to the grip without my other two fingers getting in the way. I’m not sure why but I just can’t get on with bikes that have those long levers, it just feels strange having all four fingers over a lever…

Depends on the situation for me too. Riding lanes this morning and the road surface was pretty bumpy so fully gripping the throttle and clutch handles gave me better control as I was jumping up and down over the undulations. I would have been doing star-jumps if my fingers had been resting on the levers!

Then I did a bit of motorway and again no need to cover the levers…

until the traffic closed in and I started filtering. Filtering and in town traffic I tend to cover the levers for all the reasons already mentioned.

On emergency situations:- something else happened to me today. Trundling along at about 30 and the two cars in front are both indicating right for the approaching junction. I position myself slightly to the left ready to carry straight on…then all of a sudden the second of the two slowing cars swerves violently to the left- didn’t even cancel the right indicator- and majorly cuts me up. It appears she was turning into the Costco just after the junction and couldn’t wait one second for the car in front of her to turn first! I was nearly level with her rear bumper at this point and took the split second decision to nail it through the diminishing gap between her and the pavement rather than trying to brake. In this case it was the right decision because as soon as she realised her mistake she slammed on her ABS assisted anchors and disappeared in my rear view mirror. If I had tried to out-brake her I think I would probably have ended up, at best, in the gutter. So in ‘emergency’ situations (as long as you don’t panic) you probably still have several options and fortunately you also probably have quicker synapses than the cretin-in-the-box that has just made you use them. :slight_smile:

Bearing in mind that here we are talking about emergency braking, not simply slowing down and going around something.

I am from the Keith Code school of riding, and the way he explains why you should be rolling on the throttle to put the weight slightly to the back of the bike, is because that is where the most tire is touching the ground, and why most people lose it in corners (front end) because they brake or roll off the throttle and this puts extra weight on the front tire, which isn’t equipped to handle it.

Braking and swerving is doing exactly that, putting weight on the front tire (from braking) I think adding turning into the mix is just a recipe for an accident. Trial braking doesn’t have the effect of shifting the weight of the bike, which is why I think it doesn’t produce the adverse affects.

Not sure what bike you are doing this on, I am not sure a trial bike, for instance, has the same issues given 1, that the tires are pretty similar front and rear and 2, that it is a very upright bike and may not “dip” as much under braking (due to weight moving forward and over the front of the bike) as perhaps a sports style of bike. Just a thought on that one, not stating it as a fact.

Kaos perhaps you could tell us the legal standpoint on covering the front brake whilst riding? :smiley:

@unlucky saxon

is it me, or does it just feel better? also, i think it ‘feels’ betetr for throttle control, i can use my palm to roll on and it doesnt feel so ham fisted? its hard to explain!

Lim metioned M-ways, i still do it on them, unless i’m really motoring, naked bikes you gotta hold on!

if its dry, and not too cold, braking and swerving is not a problem, provided you come off brakes a bit, remember on a bike, when the brakes are applied with a bit of effort all the bike wants to do is sit up, so it must be done lightly, better still brake- come off the brakes-swerve- then you either stop or carry on, provided you missed what you was swerving for:D

its something that defo comes with experience, and having a good reaction time! done it plenty of times in town and while working as a courier- daily occurrence then.

it doesnt matter what bike it is, if you load the front up by braking hard and its not dry or the tyres cold, 90% of the time its gonna let go…

“Braking and swerving is doing exactly that, putting weight on the front tire (from braking) I think adding turning into the mix is just a recipe for an accident. Trial braking doesn’t have the effect of shifting the weight of the bike, which is why I think it doesn’t produce the adverse affects”

Dunno about anyone else but im confused now.
Braking, releasing then swerving results in the forks going from compressed to rebound. This alters the geometry of the bike just when you dont want it to. Brake hard in a straight line, coming off the brakes slightly as you lean, thus keeps the springs compressed and enables a tighter turn yeh?
Its applying front end braking whilst you are leaning over that causes the bike to sit up isnt it? This doesnt happen if the bike is already settled by having the front compresed.
Correct?

Im still not sure what causes the front end to wash out when you roll off though? Is it because the tyre is at its max on terms of grip and by rolling off you put extra weight on the front?