A general question, would you buy something from a company with a dodgy history?
I thought this when I was looking up Varta, as I was searching for another quality battery (I’d bought a Varta a few weeks ago). Intrigued where Varta come from (Germany, apparently), I looked them up in Wikipedia and saw that they’d used massive amounts of slave labour during WW2.
So, I’m not going to buy another Varta battery, on principle. Similarly, I won’t buy a Peugeot car as they co-operated wholeheartedly with the Germans in WW2 (moral: never trust the French).
Am I alone or is there anyone else who won’t buy something on moral grounds [except for the Green & Climate Change lobbies, that is]?
We-ell… I would never buy owt from the Body shop since they sold out to L’oreal (who have an atrocious record regarding anima testing)
Apart from that… how many use bayer pharmaceuticals ? - they used slave labour in factories and produced the stuff used in the gas chambers.They haven’t got any better over the years, either (but morals are hard to find in the pharmaceutical industry).
I’m no bleeding heart - most of the human race gets on my tits - but I reckon it’s decent of you to take this stuff seriously - hopefully Varta will have paid reparations to their (surviving) victims.Yep, I won’t touch Israeli stuff because of their occupation of Palestinian lands.
I also reckon a lot of Arab stuff should be boycotted as well because of their shite human rights records.
Trouble is the Arab produce tends to be petrol - which is a bit of a shag if you like razzing around on motorbikes. :crazy:
Bit of a moral dilemma that one. :ermm:
Come to think of it - I wonder if any of the Japanese bike firms had anything to do with Japanese aggression and genocide in the 30’s and 40’s? :ermm:
I think they all started up business after WWII! Phew!!!
Hang on a minute. What about BMW? They manufactured the bikes that the Wermacht used to invade large parts of eastern europe and Russia where they carried out unspeakable atrocities.
Sh1t! that means I can’t buy a BMW! :Whistling: (relief!)
Come to think of it - I wonder if any of the Japanese bike firms had anything to do with Japanese aggression and genocide in the 30’s and 40’s? :ermm:
I think they all started up business after WWII! Phew!!!
Hang on a minute. What about BMW? They manufactured the bikes that the Wermacht used to invade large parts of eastern europe and Russia where they carried out unspeakable atrocities.
Sh1t! that means I can’t buy a BMW! :Whistling: (relief!)
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Harley for you next time then Sid?
Without Kawasaki, the Japs would never have invaded Pearl Harbour thanks to their aircraft carriers and war planes:doze:They aint called Green Meanies for nothing;)
I don’t really believe in all this myself. It’s not like us British have an angelic history is it?
Whilst not on the same sort of scale as things like the holocaust, our track record of invasion and human rights over the last 5-600 years isn’t exactly great. We were major contributors to slavery, murder and invasions of foreign lands along with the French and Spanish!..
I say let the past remain where it is, and buy what you want when you want. I’m pretty sure the people at BMW don’t goose-step to work every day!
Japanese industries starting after WW2? Someone less lazy than me might do the checks. (But look for name changes.)
Mitzubishi and Kawasaki were respectively happy little eager beavers during that time produceing Zero fighters and heavy industrial stuff. (Like ships.)
Does it matter. We are two generations on from then.
To me it’s like being asked by the French to appologise for Azincourt. I think that was the spelling at the time. O.K. “we” (our French) slaughterd prisoners but the (other) French would have done the same under the same circumstances.
But how long ago was that?
Getting into the current world, I’d like not to buy Chinese (Tibet), or Israeli (Gaza) stuff. But I can only avoid some of this stuff.
Thankfully (for me) the U.S. involvement in Vietnam (My Lai massacre etc) and the subsequent illegal invasion of Iraq based on manufactured false intelligence will force me to shun a life of tassels, chrome and crap brakes Jetstream!
Mmmmm. Looks like I’ve started something interesting.
For me, that a firm supports it’s county’s war effort is fine for the most part. I draw a line at nasty things (Bayer & Tabun/Sarin/Soman, ill-treatment of prisoners/slave labour) & the French (more French soldiers fought against us than with us after 1940).
During WW2, the German industry was generally run like any other capitalist system - the owners were making money for themselves, and they weren’t forced to take slave labour - and there was much competition for slave labour due to their low cost (even after allowing for the backhanders to the suppliers).
One man’s terrorist can be another man’s freedom fighter (e.g. there are many ways of seeing the Israelis as victims and the Palestinians as villains) - it all depends on how blinkered you want to be.
We may have had a hand in the slave trade, effectively moving in to take over the role of middle man much more effectively than the locals (we had the ships), but we were the first to ban it and our actions in using the Royal Navy to stop movement of slaves effectively put a stop to the international slave trade. Of course, we couldn’t stop the treatment of existing slaves, for example in America, or stop local trading (see Tintin) which still goes on (here, in Europe, in America as well as in Africa). My view is that we have much to be proud of from stamping out the slave trade.
Oh, Mitsubishi & Kawasaki produced some great kit - Japanese ships & aircraft were better than the Yanks & Britain at the start of the war.
Unfortunately for them, the Japanese didn’t improve their kit, preferring to spend their time brutalizing their conquests.
The [Mistsubishi] Zero was the best fighter for miles around in 1941 & 1942, being particularly manoeuvrable and fast, but was overtaken in time by fast-improving Yank kit. It wasn’t helped by being a carrier aircraft without self-sealing fuel tanks, so a few bullets would see it run out of fuel before getting home.
Kawasaki brought out some new fighters, all pretty good, but they were too little too late, as they all struggled against high-flying Superfortresses burning down every Japanese city (many times more killed than in the 2 atomic bombs, by which time the Yanks were running out of cities to burn down). I bet there aren’t many Japanese who refuse to fly in Boeings because [Boeing] Superfortresses dropped the nukes.
How times change, can you see a Harley being described as ‘fast-improving Yank kit’, albeit that your average Kawasaki or Mitsubishi is still vulnerable to a few bullets.
Totally agree mate! And we’ve done a lot more to make amends for things we have done/taken part in. Just the same as the majority of the other nations mentioned. Obviously, the whole current affairs side of the argument is a clear cut case of “each to their own”. There are always two sides to a story, and it will always be down to the individual to make up their mind as to who is the wrong/right party.
jonlukgil You might be right, but the Zero fighter was good because it was pared to the minimum. Forget self sealing fuel tanks. There was also Zero armour plating, so one round through the cockpit could either disable the pilot or take out vital avionics.
But this is digression.
I refuse to appologise for my father’s mistakes, I’m surely not going to appolgise for my granfather’s or his forefathers.
It’s all about what is current or recent and unresolved.
The problem with the “moral high ground” is there is naff all places left in the world I can buy from.
Nope. None of the above. Apart from a maternal grandfather who was British Indian Army, we are a long line of stolid working class English artisans and yeomen (and women).
Without being a zealot, I just make some small efforts to be “green” and ethical. Both are increasingly difficult positions.
Moral high ground? I’d like to be there, but chance would be good.
