My friend booked to do her CBT last Saturday witrh a firm in central london. I’ll wait for some responses here before deciding if they need to be named and shamed.
Bacsically she turned up and there were 4 students, 3 on scooters and just her on a manual. She said she was progressing well throughout the day and was happy going up and down the gearbox. She used to have a scooter so it was mainly getting used to gears with a manual. When it came to 12.30pm, the one and only instructor said that she needed to come back for a 2nd day as he didn’t think she was confident enough to go on the road. That and he had to get the scooters out of which he only took 2, told the other one he couldn’t go becase he turned up a few minutes late! Oh and he has DAS training later that day.
She’s already paid £130 for that day and the school want her to pay another £75 to go back! To me that seems unfair as she’s only received half a day training so far and paid for a full day. I don’t see how the one instructor could have possibly taken all 4 students out on the road for 2 hours by himself so I’m thinking she’s been fobbed off and is getting ripped off in the process.
I mean it’s the instructor’s discretion who goes out on the road as he has the responsibility for a new rider’s safety on this level and will get in some doo doo if he took out someone that wasn’t ready.
That doesn’t explain why he had more students than would be possible to take out though.
Sounds like she was scammed, on my CBT there were 2 students per instructor and we started at 9am, finished at 3.30ish pm. Spent a couple of hours in the classroom, couple of hours in the playground and at least 40 mins on the road.
There were some shakey people but they all made it onto the road by riding round the playground a bit longer, everybody passed.
I suspect they had to bump two people off as the max ratio of students to instructors on the road is 2:1, so one instructor can only take 2 people. (unless it’s changed recently ?) Charging her another day is just a scam, name and shame them ! :w00t:
Playing devil’s advocate it could make sense. If the morning is dedicated to riding round a car park and the afternoon riding on road, if the instructor had good reason not to let her onto the roads she would have to come back to do more training off road the next morning? Does sound a bit odd though and the set up should have been explained to her in advance
The instructor I believe can train more than two people in the classroom and in the off road section. However when going on the road he is only allowed to take two people with him, any more than this and they need another instructor.
If she was not ready to go on the road, then they should not charge her for the afternoon session. Generally if there was a second instructor they would have stayed back with her and carried on training in the off road area. If they did not have a 2nd instructor then they should not have charged her for the afternoon section.
I have to agree - Back when I did my CBT there was one guy who admitted himself that he didn’t feel up to the road riding part, so one of the instructors at the school spent a while longer with him doing more off-road training, then went out 1:1 with him for the road ride. Ended up finishing later but didn’t charge the guy any more (Though he was coming back to do the rest of his training, so I guess there’s incentive there).
Guess it depends on the situation, but whatever happened, charging for a full day when you’re not getting one ain’t cricket in my book.
The same thing happened to me and felt quite robbed. It’s not cheap afterall. Having said that, I didn’t feel ready to go on the road but the part where I felt cheated was that my instructor was too busy having a fag and chatting away with the others to give me his undivided attention and I only got half a day’s training and no instructors around for further tuition! Don’t go with Think Bike they’re based in Richmond.
I finally passed my CBT with North London Motorcycle Training in Edgware, tel: 0870 240 3407, and they said they would spend the whole day if necessary to get us through our CBT. Luckily I didn’t need a whole day but some did and they got their moneys worth.
As for going on the road, my instructor had 4 of us on the playground and he only took us 2 at a time. We finished by around 3.30pm.
It is normal to have four to one and take two on the road at a time meaning two have to wait. I have taken CBTs with two schools and this happened each time. What is bad is taking two out and abandioning the other two.
On my first one I had two years experience riding a moped on the full P classification that came free with my car licence. The school were very naughty as they took me and another rider who was renewing a CBT that was about to expire and spend very little time on the road with us. I think this in part was becasue they were happy with what they had seen and we were more mature whilst the ones they left behind were going to need a lot more work which they wanted to leave time for.
As I had a valid CBT for the second one I went home on my bike and came back later as they were taking the riders out for the full two hours. This time (with gears) I was one they wanted to spend more time with as the two guys with 25 years of riding without license and insurance between them were taken out first!
Sounds dodgy to me.
On my CBT, the instructor refused to give the other guy his CBT because he was just driving dangerously. BUT, he did get an entire days worth of tutoring and they offered him to come back the next weekend for the price of the bike hire (way less than the CBT).
If you want to know for sure, ring up a reputable school and ask, then confront the other one.
Well that happened to me they didn’t feel i was ready to go out opn the road, so i came back the second time and they pass me . But i didn’t have to pay again. It is unfair for her to pay again. Speak to the DSA see what they say. I thought they are suppose to have 2xper instrutor even if outon the road
I think that what you described was well out of order. Yes, name and shame, and write a formal letter of complaint. Ride Magazine did a survey of CBT schools a while back, sending an undercover person in to try them out. They rated them on a number of criteria and some were rated as excellent, whilst others were shockers.
When I took my CBT a few years ago, I did it with Motag in Crystal Palace and I would recommend them. It started at 9. 15 ish and for the whole day we had two people for one instructor. I was not a natural, to say the least, and even fell off the bike at one point, flat on the floor. However, the instructor made sure we all got out on the road. Even though it was later than he wanted, he made sure that we were competent to go on the road and then ensured we went out even though it was mid afternoon by the time we were deemed to have got the hang of it.
I went on to do test training with them and found their instruction good and thorough. It’s a lot of money to learn to ride a bike, so there is no excuse for shoddy standards like that you described.
From my knowledge which may be a few years out of date.
If a CBT pupil requires extra time (a second day) to reach the required level of competance (there is no pass or fail mark), then said schools are only allowed to charge pupils a fee for the hire of bike, equipment etc.
This is where it all gets vague unless some of us are CBT instructors / training school owners.
My understanding is an instructor can take up to 3 students out on the road. It is also entirely up to the school as to what they charge and whether or not you pass. Finding out up front what their policy is as to not completing the CBT would perhaps be the best thing to have done, so I can understand your friend feels a little burned at not having done that. Some schools only charge hire and not trainer time, but that is entirely up to them.
Is it possible your friend needed the extra time, your post doesn’t say how they felt?
It seems odd to me that there was only 1 instructor around, clearly over-booked. And your friend certainly didn’t get a full day’s training.
Sounds like she was short changed. If they will not do the 2nd day for free I would try demanding my money back and threaten to take them to the small claims court if they refuse. You could also threaten to make a complaint to the DSA. The DSA would have to investigate.