Bus Lane fine advice please

Hi all, just a quick ask for advice-

I got a penalty notice from Barnet Council saying I infringed on their bus lane in Cricklewood a couple of weeks ago and was spotted by a CCTV camera operator. I have no recollection of this at all and while I have been known to use the bus lanes now and then, I’m sure I was being a good boy and waiting in traffic at the time!

Can I ask them to provide the evidence to back this up without going through the court process and losing the chance to pay the cheaper 14-day price instead of the full £120? Or do I have to pay the fine without challenging in order to make sure it stays at the lower price?

Cheers for any help and bring on allowing us in the d4mn lanes in the first place!

you have a couple of ways of going about this,

  1. Pay then dispute it if you are found correct they have to refund the money.

  2. If you dispute it they have to put the discount on hold until the investigation is complete (baring in mind this is how they do parking tickets so I’m confident the same rules apply)

Also if I’m not mistaken if you request proof they HAVE to provide it or they could just be chancing their arm, a court would throw it out without solid evidence.

If you dispute then the time is frozen so you still get your 50% discount.

Lewisham tried to do me for an illegal right turn but i knew they were chancing it because you’d have to be some kind of **** to try a right turn in that location. I challenged and demanded the photgraphic evidence. Surprise,surprise they threw it out.

so it’s worth a shout i reckon.

When I was done for turning right where I shouldn’t the fine came with picture attached. Surprised yours wasn’t too so i’d demand a picture.

They should have sent details of how to dispute along with the fine and dispute should delay the fine escalation until after it’s settled.

Just give a call to Barnet on the number which is with your Penalty Notice.
They will send extracted frames as pics from the video to your email. Just ask for it.

I got 2 bus lane tickets in Cricklewood in 20 min the other day. Going to and back from Halfords if you know the area.

In my case challenging them was pointless as pics were clearly showing me driving through full length of bus lane just in the middle;] Had to pay £120 in total.

See what evidence they got for you. If you were sitting in traffic and got to bus lane for 5 s you can always say you had to do it coz you were afraid of hitting the guy in front of you etc.

Good Luck and Ride Safe.

P.S Do you live somewhere round aswell ?

got caught in my truck, they sent a photo but the picture wasnt good quality on first one and argued the toss, tried to send me second pic but I argued it and got off, said I had pulled over briefly to read map.

pulling over to read a map, good answer

Can anyone confirm something i heard, apparently buses have front facing cameras and can get you in a bus lane too (so its not just static cameras you need to look out for if you happen to drift into a bus lane)

yeah thats true.

Something i ALSO know from experience.

I LOVE tfl i do…

yeah cheeky blighters(!) sent me 2 pics neither showing me turning…

i demanded the third ‘admin’ picture the one they said ACTUALLY shows me turning.

Thats when they threw my one out.

I say challenge them all the time…

This used to be my job so i consider myself a bit of an authority in this.

1.) I would not advise paying and disputing - paying the fine is admitting liability.

2.) Photographs and/or pictures can be requested but they are within their rights to charge you for this - most dont.

3.) If you got caught in a bus lane there are certain things that a bus lane must adhere to in order for it to be defined as one - if the criteria is absent or wrong then in law the bus lane does not exhist and therefore cannot be enforced.

At work at the mo but will write up the criteria later on this evening.

Watch this space!

(Call me Mr Loophole!)

Def ask for a picture, a friend of mine got a bus lane penalty notice with a picture attached, he drives a blue astra, the vehicle in the picture was a white transit van :stuck_out_tongue:

Islington council tried it on with a fine and attached, a rather fuzzy picture of a bike in a bus lane, I contested it saying “I can’t even see the bike properly let alone the plate”.

They later sent me a nice clean close up of my plate and bike.

Even if you are bang in the wrong, the fine is too much anyway, appeal it regardless and say that you saw nothing wrong with what you are doing or it wasn’t you, make the moneygrabbers work for it and give them a hard time like they do to us.

Plus it resets the time in which to pay half the full amount:)

Thanks for all the advice, I honestly can’t remember going anywhere near the bus lane so I’ve written and asked them to provide the evidence. I was following the sat-nav on the way to B&Q- does that count as pulling over to read a map?!

If it turns out I did do a muppet manouvre then I’d be very interested in knowing those criteria for bus lanes please Bumble Bee!

cheers

You can ask for video and picture edvidence.

Mmmmmm - not that simple - you can make them work for it but you’ll go crazy sorting out, passed around every time you call etc etc. The trouble is that you’re not bothering one individual but a whole company, basically the only one who cares is you - trust me, you’re nowt to them. Go ahead and throw your toys out the pram, it wont wash.If you say it wasnt you then you’ll have to produce a police crime reference number to prove that it was stolen and the date will either have to be before or on the day of the contravention. It a headbust! The easiest way is to educate yourself with the rules THEY have to abide by NOT YOU!

As I was saying in my previous post. Bus lanes have to have certain standards, if not, in the eyes of the law they are NOT bus lanes, they simply DO NOT EXIST. For example, there’s a little known book called the Traffic Signs & Regulation General Directions (or something similar) which goes through all road sign and their dimensions, colour and positioning. It says that you cant have red route without a sign, it says that motorway signs have to be blue and it says tha speed signs have to be round etc etc. (You can get a copy from the library!)

It goes into much more detail and you can be sure that not everything in your bus lane is EXACTLY right.

1st.) Is there an advanced warning sign? It has to by law and it must be positioned at the beginning of the bus lane where the line is dotted - there must also be one at the end and a few dotted throughout (depending on its length)

2nd.) If you joined the bus lane via a side road then the side road also has to have a sign advising you of the bus lanes presence.

3rd.) There must be a solid UNBROKEN thick white line designating the bus lane (The only place this line is allowed to break is near a junction with a side road etc etc

4th.) Are all the signs pointed towards you? are they visible? or covered with stickers.

5th.) Contrary to popular belief bus lanes do not have to be red - the red is anti skid.

6th.) There must be a bus lane legend on it somewhere.

7th.) The council must also be in posession of a VALID traffic management order - this is an official document stating exactly where the bus lane stops and starts and what the hours of operation are - you’ll be amazed how many are out of date and thus unenforceable!

8th.) CCTV camera operators have to be trained and BTEC qualified now - its the law - you could ask for proof that your camera operator is fully qualified - this is unlikely to be shown to you due to data protection but if you took your case further then it can be asked for.

If I were you I would check out the side roads and see if they’re missing a sign (this isthe most likely scenario) if one is missing then just say you went in the bus lane at that point - as long as you didnt pass any other signs before the CCTV capture point then yu’re home and scott free! but you’ll have to fight for it nonetheless.

Let me know how it goes.

I contested one once, got caught bang to rights coming down through farringdon / clerkenwell in the bus lane, opted not to go for the discount and then Islington council promptly sent me photographs with me smack bang in the middle of the lane. Decided to appeal the fine in court coz it was free to do so, got let off scott free - the council failed to submit the evidence required… lucky that time:)

Checked for Bumblebee’s “Traffic Signs and Regulation General Directions” on the net.

Blimey, is there some boring **** out there. They’re as thrilling as the Building Regulations (lousy ending to an iffy plot) to read.

If “…a pictures worth a thousand words…” why do they use two thousand words?

If someone can find the picture book version, post the link. I think we could all use it from time to time.

Oldguy.

(If you know the rules on yellow lines, you’d be surprised how often the road markings and signs don’t conform.)

Zed90 - I think the fact that you got off your penalty charge notice just goes to show that most of these agencies rely on your ignorance! It was probably more the case that their Traffic Management Order was out of date! Hence why they didnt submit it at adjudication - they would have looke dright plonkers!

Oldguy - You’re right, power is knowledge and although that book is a boring read, once you know…YOU KNOW!!! Theres a lot that these enforcement agencies have to adhere by and its amazing how many times they fail.

I think i’ll change my name to Mr Loophole!!:smiley:

If any body is still reading this thread, WHERE DO I FIND THE PICTURE BOOK?

Some years ago, I bumped into a guy who was hired by lawyers working for the rich and even richer.

He had a pretty ringbinder of all traffic signs and markings with dimensions to check for legality. He told me he’d once or ten times got footballers off speeding nicks because the limit signs were too big.

I want this pretty ring binder.

Oldguy

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/images/tsrgd.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/signregs.htm&h=283&w=200&sz=16&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=X6xHmcTDFqXLUM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=81&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtsrgd%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG

and download the purple book entiled “Chapter 3”

Enjoy!!

Alternatively get it at the library!