Bolts (now a serious problem)

Motorcycling
21

Its a common enough problem, here’s one where ‘monkey boy’ thought it a good idea to withdraw the bolt using an air gun. You can see how drilling off centre to the right weakens the casing.

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Softly gentle is the only way to withdraw these bolts, give them a good soaking with a penetrating oil and allow it the time to penetrate. Then 1/4 turn out and 1/8 turn in, 1/2 turn out and 1/4 turn in, don’t turn any further than anything more than mild resistance and keep it well soaked with the penetrating oil.

22

Before I set off, I noticed the frame was not in alignment with the engine and wondered whether this would have put the pressure on the bolt. (And they were when I installed the bung, and no drops since.)

When I got back home they seemed to be more aligned, so now I wonder if it was instead riding anywhere up to almost 280 miles without the bolt which affected the alignment.

The reason the bike came home with me is Frank Dunstall inspected it did not like the look of it. He recommended contacting an engineering firm who would have the appropriate tools to drill it straight without risk of cracking the engine.

Any one have any recommendations for where to go in south London?

That is twice this year the bike has been perfectly fine but for a really stupid yet difficult problem, after the lock barrel ‘froze’. Just unfortunate I cannot afford to reconsider the bike itself.

23

You have to remember the engine is now classed as part of the frame and any missing or loose bolt will affect its rigidity and can place stress on other areas !

24

Indeed. Which is why it is annoying not knowing how far I rode without it, as I did not feel anything odd on the journey. A large part of which was the A1 and M11 from Blyth. Today I just tried to be careful to not put any stress on it, but hindered by some awful road surfaces.

But all that matters now is getting it fixed, which seems to have become more of a problem than it should be.

25

National_Treasure

2d

Point of order it is science and it works something like this - When steel comes into contact with aluminium there is a risk of electron transfer which causes the two metals to weld together. The risk increases over time and with higher torque settings, contaminated assemblies, distortion of threads, ingress of moisture and contaminates etc.

NT - You are such a minefield of information.

1 Like
26

Never used them so not a recommendation as such

Motortech Engineering, 154 Melbourne Grove, East Dulwich, SE22 8SA

Their website bullet points “Broken bolts & threads in situ” give them a ring 020 8299 4471

http://www.motortechengineering.co.uk/

27

Thanks NT, they look great but no answer on the phone.

Using their site as a template for searching I found a company in Sutton which says they do thread repairs. Sadly too late to call them today so it has to wait until Monday now, and will give Motortech another go then too.

http://www.srsengineeringsutton.com/

No bike by the end of next week and I will have to be back on the National Express.

28

I commute from Medway, Kent to Moorgate. Is that on your path? I can give a lift next week if so

29

Thank you, but that is completely the wrong direction.

My dad has been very ill and so I need to visit him in Lincolnshire late next week, as my sister was there this weekend and he needs help with a few jobs he can no longer do himself. He only just managed without me coming up on Tuesday as planned.

It has probably not been good for the bike how much I have spent the last two months regularly going up there when it is only really a commuter bike. I managed just over 2,800 miles last month just between London, Boston Hospital, and his home on the coast.

Mind, I did a bit more than that in August due to my summer habit of day trips to places like Teignmouth, before he first went into hospital.

When the lock barrel seized was the first time I used a coach in a very long time. As an less popular route it was not so bad as it was cheap, quiet, and spacious. But only one trip per day and so slow as it stops in pretty much every village after Spalding.

So hopefully I will get some good news on the bike tomorrow.

30

So SRS Engineering could not help, and I will happily recommend them.

They tried drilling a pilot hole to unscrew it, but it was too tight. And as Frank Dunstall feared, the frame alignment prevented them getting in straight to drill it out. And because they could not finish the job that they did not charge me. Which is unnecessarily decent of them.

My fault really, because thinking it through I should have realized that even with the broken bolt removed it would still need everything realigning to put the new one in. So I should have had that done first.

So next week it is back to Frank Dunstall to do that, which he says should just be loosening the tightening the engine because engineers are not mechanics. May as well get the bike serviced at the same time too.

The back to SRS to finish the job, because mechanics are not engineers. And I am neither.

But tomorrow it means I get to spend five and a half hours on a coach. Which is at least a few hours quicker than by bike, because I would have taken a route to the mid-Lincolnshire coast via Sheffield.

31

Hmm…
I’d get the bolt all sorted and tickety-boo before embarking on a service. Sounds as if there is light at the end of the tunnel.

32

So I got up this morning and put my jacket on.

But I could not find my gloves in the back pocket, only then did I realize I had put on my vented jacket.

So I changed and got on the bike.

I have been riding in the “reserve” whilst trying to get the bike fixed but as soon as I set off it dropped a tenth into 3.6 gallons used. The total tank size is 3.6 gallons.

So I went straight to the local petrol station.

They were out of regular petrol, so I bought £5 of the premium petrol, for £5.01. Then I discovered my phone was missing, and I definitely put it in my pocket. Thought the removable lining of my jacket only has a flap to the pocket in the jacket itself, and it is easy to miss the pocket.

So I rode back home scanning the road.

Nothing, so I used the app on my tablet to find my phone. Obviously, it was in the pocket of my vented jacket.

So I finally went to Sutton to get my bike fixed.

I had been feeling optimistic, but after the way the morning had gone I was expecting something else to go wrong.

Several drills (well, three) and drill bits later, with a hammer and chisel (or something which looked like one) the last remains of the old bolt popped out. The thread intact. And the original Honda bolt screwed in.

Which was better than expected, as I thought the thread would need repairing.

img_0230

Although Frank Dunstall was able to move the engine a bit, he noted there was a little give in the frame arm. So I used a ratchet strap to get everything perfectly aligned for the drilling.

So I am a little concerned the frame will now be putting some stress on the bolt, which is why I went with the OEM one for now instead of the bung. But the bike still needs servicing, so back to Frank Dunstall to see what he says. Maybe loosening and retightening the engine will help more, now that that corner can be tightened too.

The other week, without telling anyone in advance, National Express merged their northern and southern Lincolnshire costal services. We differ in our preferences for them being almost empty. So twice in four coaches I have had to sit next to someone between London and Peterborough.

It will be good to have the bike back for this week, although I have not checked the weather yet.

33

Dontcha love mornings like this. House keys; phone; wallet; bike key; ground anchor key and alarm fob; earplugs; helmet and gloves, let’s go. Then sitting on the bike in the garage five minutes later: oh bugger, garage door remote control is in my other jacket.

34

sounds like a frustrating start to the week, coming at you from all sides right now isn’t it - hope you’re doing okay?

fingers crossed you get it back this week

35

Hope your right about the threads, not only does that look a very off centre hole it appears to have been bored at an angle too, could be wrong it may just be a deceptive image. Assuming you didn’t forget the molybdenum disulphide and it torqued up to the specified torque…

Happy Days

36

Thanks slow-ride.

No grease at the moment, NT, it was just a case of putting everything back together to make sure it was all okay. And so I can consider whether or not to stick with the OEM bolt or use the replacement bung.

I was thinking to get a stronger bolt for the bung, but it seems to be difficult to find a part-threaded hex-head M10 x 1.25 at 117mm in any grade. I think 120mm would fit, but I am not finding anything over 100mm with that thread, as the ISO for M10 is 1.5mm. Which is more knowledge about bolts than I wanted.

The bolt initially ended up being bored at an angle because of the frame preventing going in straight, which is why the engineer gave up rather than risk doing any damage. This week he could do it while I waited, and it was mainly with small drill bits to break up the hollowed bolt.

But the bike is booked in for a service next week, and I was reassured not to be worried about the frame putting too much stress on the bolt. So I just need to adjust the chain as it is a bit loose, then back on the road on Friday to see my dad. It is three months now since I rode anywhere else! And now it is only 540 more miles to reach 20k for the year.

37

It occurred to me it had to have been be a bad bolt, no?

Because surely if it is supposed to withstand the force of impact with the road, which is the point of a bung, then surely there is nothing the frame or engine can do to it that should cause it to snap.

38

Not necessarily, at times its preferable for the bolt to fail to protect the engine casing.

39

Well the bolt held for a 400-mile round trip at the weekend, and the bike now off being serviced. I think I will just put the replacement bung in as it, tighten it as loosely as the instructions allow, then hope everything stays good this time. So before then I will need to get some of that molybdenum.

1 Like
40

Use the moly grease you have, its not perfect but it’ll do the job of insulating the steel and aluminium. You only need the slightest smear just enough to give the threads a wet look. Remember to reduce the bolt thread torque by around 20%, softly gently on the torque wrench so as not to have any mishaps. Note when tightening bolts its about the clamping force of the mating surfaces and not how tight the threads are. A conventional torque wrench will measure how tight the threads are when what you really want to achieve is a clamping force between the mating surfaces, the correct clamping force will be reached sooner than thread torque on lubricated threads.