BN Race Science Suspension Day

sounds very expensive for a base suspension setting, even when i have 100% suspension do mine (at every NGRRC and BSB round working with novice to national riders and beyond!), they charge 50 and work with me the whole day, each time i come off the track im over to Colin. 80 for a base setting in a garage? sting in the wallet for a vague road base setting.

It’s certainly not a ‘vague’ base setting I offer. It will be a tailored set up that takes time to do. Colin does great work but he does not road test the bikes he sets up or thoroughly checks mechanical aspects of it.

He’ll rely on rider feedback which in my experience even with some riders I’ve worked with at British Championship level can be far from accurate. I will ride the bike and from my experience will tell the rider exactly what issues I find and how I fixed them.

I could very easily charge £50 and set up 10 bikes on this event in no time at all with very good results but please notice I chose only to do 3.

It’s not all about the money…I also enjoy what I do and firmly believe in what I offer!

colin has a proven record of knocking seconds off riders times form all levels - thats indisputable and on paper. he doesn’t need to ride their bike down a road to know that. it works!

A base setting is easy, beyond that you cannot tell a rider how his or her bike should feel, you get them to tell you what they feel, its a preferential thing. some riders like different things, and thats not something that somebody adjusting can dictate, the bike has to feel how they like it to inspire confidence to push harder and in turn go faster. so rider feedback in my mind is vital.

furthermore your assertion that he doesnt check mechanical aspects? is this based on anythign at all?? because i can tell you now that is absolutely not the case.

cheers bye!!

With Tom on this. Colin gave me enough confidence watching him work that I moved on to study a bit and still use his set up sheet as a base setting! Even Dave Moss on youtube explains to the layman how to get to that base setting.
I’m still perplexed how riders with non adjustable suspension benefit from this

When i first got this current bike the guy before me had it set up to his weight etc (he was about 8 inches shorter and 3 stone lighter than me!) i took it to a place in Chelmsford and they done a few adjustments and changed the settings to suit me, Riding it out of the workshop it felt a completely different bike, it handled better, cornered more precise and the bumps were absorbed completely differently to how it did when i rode it in there.

So for me i think it is a must have thing before any mod.

Yeah, absolutely agree. But how olds the fork oil? Lost all its damping properties its been sat for so long! What weight? What air gap? Are they the same in each leg? Thats only the start of a long list of things that need to be assured of before your suspension can be set properly.

Hey man, B is making some fair few bucks here so hats off to him :wink:

The reason i’m doing this is i’m having scorch do the Headstock Bearings, and whilst the front is off i’m getting the Oil and Seals changed as it seems silly having it all apart and not doing it, so thats why i’m getting Brian to do my suspension as it will have been apart, so he will know its all new Oil etc so fingers crossed it will be even better than the last time i had it done! :smiley:

I was talking generally, but yeah… Definitely erm… worth £70 :w00t:

Why wouldn’t it be?

If it’s done well it’s the best money you’ll ever spend on your pride and joy in my humble opinion.

It is in my books. Enough to have it done twice so far and continue to do so with future bikes :ermm:

there’s certainly not a lack of mechanics or people who set your suspensions in this world.

i’m set on two garages for my mechanics and B to do my suspensions. i also have preferences for who does my tyres. call me an idiot, thats money i’m investing in my own safety. and god is my witness, i’m not pootling around either when i ride. :smiley:

That sounds really counter-intuitive - you’ll set my bike up for you, and then give it back to me? I guess a much larger proportion of the weight is the bike here than my traditional domain of mtbs, but there’s got to still be a good deal of personal preference and riding style in it? Perhaps I’m also misunderstanding fast road riding…

I’m really not trying to criticise here, that just sounds so odd a ‘feature’ to me…

‘Careering wildly around the Oxfordshire countryside like Rossi on crack’ is probably more accurate than ‘pootling’

lol :D:D:D:D:D:D

Ha, but she looks good doing it.

Didn’t see this thread but phoned Brian today to get setup, what’s the story on fork oil and when is it advisable to renew?


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‘Careering wildly around the Oxfordshire countryside like Rossi on crack’ is probably more accurate than ‘pootling’[/

Ha ha just spat out my dinner reading that!:smiley:

Sorry, I should have explained myself better. What I meant is that I often hear feedback from riders where they are mistaken by the problems they have. For example they may complain the rear end is too hard, whereas it turns out it is too soft on the rebound damping and so you get a bit of a kick off the bumps.

Having said that, I will always make sure the rider is personally happy with the set up and ask them to report back after a test ride.

Ah right, yeah, I know exactly what you mean there, having so_many_times replaced preload adjustment with compression damping adjustment for people. :slight_smile:

Tom and Saxon, you bring up very valuable and pertinent points, but I think we should also identify that there is a vast chasm between what you ask Colin to do and what Brian is offering, so by means of a couple of observations perhaps we can put this into a more rational context.

firstly you both seem to be approaching this with a fairly high (in comparison to most of us) level of track experience, and have spent a fairly large period of time analysing your own riding and your own machines in a relatively high pressure environment, as such your knowledge of how your bike feels to you, and as importantly what is wrong with it, goes a long way toward Colin being able to translate those feelings and, probably fairly accurate descriptions into mechanical adjustments to your benefit, yes?

Similarly you most likely employ an understandable jargon to your descriptions based on your own mechanical knowledge and savvy in regard to riding on track, at which you are both fairly accomplished, yes?

As such Colin has no requirement to ride your bike as you can provide him with sensible and relatively accurate information, and you want Colin to do as you ask him, as you know your way round these things well.

now, there is also the business model to consider, Colin can sit at a track with his van and trailer and charge £50 per rider as he has a relatively captive audience, offers a very good service at good value, which lots of people use, so if 12 riders use hi for a day he can cover his overheads and make enough to earn a decent wage, as he should given his skill and expertise.

Now, Brian on the other hand is offering a very different service indeed, he has offered to come to Scorches and take on the likes of me, a mechanical dimwit, who can offer no feedback as to how my bike should feel because I don’t know, my experience is too narrow, he will ask the right questions to try and get the right answers, but in the end I NEED him to ride my bike so he can fathom what the feck I have just mumbled into some coherent mechanical solution, he is also taking on, not a pared down, well prepared, track bike, but my soiled and neglected adventure bike, or some bike that looks great and is new to someone, but second hand and has previously been owned by a back garden fettler, who thought they were gods own answer to bike mechanics but really were just a tw4t, hence the rigour with which he will go about the mechanical checking of all components.

also, Brian doesn’t set my bike up for him, he rides it, I ride it, he rides it, I ride it, feedback and more fettling, all this takes a long time and Brian has proved he has the patience of a saint. what is more, is that I have left certain that the bike is set up for me, and feels better in every respect in comparison to how it felt prior to visiting Brian.

let us also consider the business model, Brian has stated that he will only do 3 of these in a day, as due to all the complexities listed above plus more that in my ignorance I know nothing of, that is all he is happy to do and do well.

I am not saying you guys are wrong, I just think you are comparing different things, and if you asked Colin to do the same thing, with numpties like me and my soiled and neglected bike, he would likely charge £70 too.

look back through the previous threads for Brians suspension days and you will see just about 100% customer satisfaction. perhaps born of ignorance that you are trying to do something about, for which I thank you, but I still think its the best money I have spent on my bike, I think Brian is great at what he does and would happily go back and spend it again when the need arises.

It’s one thing setting a bike up for trackday and race involvement and a completely different thing setting up all manner of bikes for the road.