Which also means that any visitors won’t know what the score is, when they see bikes without permits parked up, until they get the FPN in the post. What a shambles.
The street signage says it all ‘Permit Holders Only’
That includes virtual permits so LBWF will not need to alter the street signs. Also note there has never been an official motorcycle parking exemption, the council simply didn’t enforce it until now. Three months seems to be fair warning assuming the Enforcement Officers are issuing sufficient warning notices.
I visit LBWF once or twice a month on my motorcycle and so far two visits since 1st May and no warning notice received. Has anyone received a warning notice yet? Are LBWF ticketing motorcycles with the warning notice or posting them as they would a FPN?
But this often excludes bikes. For example in The Regent’s Park, The Royal Parks have a Pay and Display system. Information explains the payment required and the two hour permitted duration but nowhere is it mentioned that motorbikes are exempt.
If I was visiting LBWF for the first time, I might reasonably assume a similar system is in place.
Your assumption is far from reasonable. Regardless of what happens elsewhere how can ‘Permit Holders Only’ mean anything else?
To exclude motorcycles from parking enforcement requires a separate order, what we have here is an authority that didn’t, until now, enforce it. The Courts will see it has a straight forward parking infringement.
I don’t know where you’re getting this information from or why you’re defending the imposition of the charges, against long-term custom and practice. It would be interesting to see the original order that includes motorcycles, if you have a copy.
its all in the earlier thread here Parking in Waltham Forest
Well apologies for repeating a topic. I don’t know why we couldn’t say that to start with.
My replies sound a bit grumpy, and I don’t mean to be. Off to get a coffee.
It’s only reasonable if you consider the experience of a motorcyclist faced with the parking regime at The Regent’s Park. Every sign tells him/her similar “permit holders only” messaging but the reality is motorbikes are exempt, they just haven’t told the motorcyclist.
It’s the same if you visit Hammersmith & Fulham. The Residents’ Bay will say “Permit Holders Only” but motorbikes are exempt. Again, the signage doesn’t tell you this, you have to be in the know.
If this has been your experience of London motorbike parking, it is not unreasonable to think other boroughs follow suit.
I’m not in favour of these secretive exemptions. I wish the signage was clear. I wish there was some sort of pan-London rules for parking.
And some sort of pan-London bus lane exemptions!!!
Well maybe the assumption is reasonable. The question is “is the exemption of solo motorcycles in London Borough ‘Permit Holders Only’ bays the exception to the rule or the general rule”?
To be clear do more or less LB’s make exceptions for solo motorcycles?
Now you’ve started me. Only yesterday I was on a bit of the A5 I don’t normally use, and surrounding by HGVs, taxis, buses and LGVs, I moved into the bus lane because I needed to be in lane 1 for an imminent left turn. As I moved in I caught a glimpse of the bus lane sign, I was only quick enough to read that it did not include motorbikes but I wasn’t quick enough to read the hours of operation.
There are so many other more important things we need to be concentrating on the roads. All bus lanes should have the same conditions for this reason alone. I suggest 24 hours for simplicity, and motorbikes allowed.
I’ve too much time, according to http://www.parkingforbikes.com/boroughs/boroughs
17 London Boroughs (including LBWF) do not allow free solo motorcycle parking in resident bays vs 14 that do. Therefore the assumption should be you need to pay to park, even if it is only the price of a cup of tea (Walton on Naze cafe law).
As you have the time, how many of those 17 boroughs refuse to provide bike bays? If there are no bays, is it still unreasonable to expect free parking in other spaces? How many boroughs now charge the same price as cars for parking, including for council car parks?
What are we trying to prove here? It’s not just the parking fee, everyone makes mistakes and sooner or later picks up a fine. Delivery riders and young people on scooters are often financially vulnerable. They may not have or be able to borrow the £65, and so up the fine goes. BBC filmed a drama about exactly that. Worth a watch before pushing the blame onto the rider. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p067bmlh
I got screwed over visiting my girlfriend in Highgate a couple of years back. Used to park on the side of the road free in residents bays, confirmed online. One day I park 10 meters away from normal, around the corner and got fined. Turns out the border between the two councils was on that corner and the other council fined me. 10 meters cost me £130 for two fines.
It is ridiculous how inconsistent London is, both with this and the stupidity of bus lanes being random.
I’m going to wade in here! I watched that and I’m utterly disgusted about what happened and the fact he felt he needed to take his own life.
But let us be very clear here, the council and the fine was not the cause. It was how the debt collectors handled this!
For a start, they could not take his bike as it was financed to his step dad, meaning he was not the legal owner and therefore it was unenforceable, did he know that no he did not, did they check it no!
Did they offer him reasonable payment terms, no they did not, did they go through his inc/exp no they did not!
I feel very passionate about this as I was once a debt collector and it made me sick to the stomach how he was treated.
Should things be clearer yes they should, but the fine/council were not what ended this guys life it was the shear lack of any morale standing by the company employed to recover the debt!
My rant is over.
If anyone is ever in that situation, please talk to the companies trying to recover. They are not animals and will work with you if you’re willing to work with them…
No, there was no one single cause, but the fine was a contributor to his situation, as was a poorly regulated debt collector, and the lad’s own mental health. And all of those things were made worse by poverty. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that parking fines for motorcycles are for made-up offences, because there is no actual offense in the real world. Motorcycles have no measurable impact on pollution, no measurable impact on the availability of parking for other vehicles, and if there’s any anti-social behaviour, that is what should be addressed, not the bikes. I don’t see the council seeking to control similar antisocial behaviour by discouraging the use of bicycles, for instance.
London Borough of Waltham Forest are using fines to discourage motorcycling in the borough. They actually wrote that in their report. I can understand why someone might not be all that bothered about that, or other people’s hardship, but I don’t understand why anyone would actively defend the council on it, especially a motorcyclist.
It is maddening. At least for car drivers they actually put up signage explaining things, and if the signs are not clear you have the basis of an appeal but somehow motorcyclists - who can be hit with the same penalties - are expected to know that parking in residents bays is permitted on one side of a borough boundary and not on the other. No signage explains this, you are expected to know.
I have noticed that a number of delivery scooters / mopeds now park in pay and display bays near fast food outlets. Often they take up the whole bay so no other vehicles can pay to park there. Lost revenue to local council hence they feel the need to charge bikes.
I live in Waltham forest and it’s a total joke, that unlike sensible bouroughs like Haringey, Hackney , Brent and others that allow bikes to park in resident bays and shared use bays etc. The actual rules vary from bourough to bourough but at least they seem to agree with most sensible people that bikes can be accommodated within existing infrastructure and at no cost to the eco friendly lower than car emissions style of transport we prefer on here. Less emmisions ,less congestion covid friendly style of save the planet transport. Why do Waltham Forest see this totally differently than most .Its got to be the money /revenue for themselves as they don’t seem to have a clue on green transport issues.Why not fo what they do in Islington and charge more to park your diesel 4x4 .Can anyone outline the actual law around using bike covers ,as I know in certain parts of London if you have a cover on it wardens are allegedly not allowed to take it off or lift it up to see your number plate, in order to give you a ticket . If this is true then we may need to tell the world and unscrupulous councils get there just deserts,ie no income from bikes.Can anyone post an updated parking in London flyer like the one I think Motoden used to run as London members need to know this stuff
If it is the case ,I think car covers will be next lol.
Happy Riding guys.