Bloody quotation bollox, some days fine, some days not. What’s causing it?
Let them strike and let them strike for weeks and weeks. Don’t pay them while they are on strike and see how long they last before going back with their tails between their legs asking for their job back. No benefits either.
You sign a contract to work so do the fecking work. If you don’t like the contract don’t sign it.
Look what the unions managed to do to the UK’s car industry for one, they screwed that up completely.
With plenty of people out of work, living on the bread line, i’m sure there will be plenty happy to work for the current contract.
And yes you are able to start a argument even on your own Steve.
Nothing constructive posted on here in ages and now you start with an argument. I take it the bike is locked up and you are bored. Maybe we will get to hear about your riding in April when the weather gets better.
Do as animals do and hibernate.
The tube is the rich man’s public transport
What’s a union? Someone wouldn’t last 2 secs if they mentioned that at the places I work… You would just be told to leave and they would employ someone else.
You agree to the hours and days you work at the start of the job, if you don’t like them you don’t start. Easy.
Exactly, and lest we forget the Bike Industry.
While it is speculation, it is unlikely that the contracts have remained unchanged for the 30 years that some of them have worked on the Underground. It is a long running business and will change its contracts periodically to move with the times, implement new legislation etc etc.
While there is no force applied to a contract of work, you are unemployed if you don’t sign it, you can claim constructive dismissal, if the changes are REALLY drastic, but generally even if they are to your detriment, your choice is take it or leave it.
We have 2.64 million people unemployed, facing a change to your contract that doesn’t benefit you, or unemployment, is not much of a choice. It might be ok for some workers, but even the courts recognise the inequality of bargaining position in the contract of employment.
You know Nivag, it is actually a legal requirement to recognise a Union, and it is automatically unfair dismissal for dismissing someone for joining a Union. That can lead to compensation of up to £68,000.
I know in practice that this might not mean much, especially with what I just said above, what the law is and what it says is not always reflected in the real world, but it is there.
The thing that is annoying PJ is that we all moaned a few weeks ago about the Bankers, we all moan that there is great wealth and yet that wealth is not being spread around, we moan that the divide between those that have and those that don’t have has grown over the past decade…and when one group, with an iota of power attempts to redistribute some of that wealth…we have a go at them.
You are right though, I won’t be back on the bike til April, it is safely tucked away under a blanket. I have no desire to ride in the cold any more, been there, done that, wasn’t fun the first time round.
This isn’t a comment on any of the people posting on here - so don’t take it personally.
But how bad do things have to get before working people rediscover class solidarity?
How bad do things have to get before people appreciate the kind of progressives - usually on the left - who gave them free education and the NHS and stopped kids getting sent up chimneys and mangled by weaving machines - instead of slagging these progressives off all the time.
I’ve come to the conclusion most people actually enjoy living in an exploitative hierachy and most peoples natural instinct is to suck up to the rich and powerful and to drag down people like themselves - this seems to be the instinct of the majority.
Kaos, some of your points I agree with, some seem a little sensationalist.
I agree that contracts move with the times, but my point was - unions have been around as long as LUL has and I would seriously doubt that anyone who has been closely aligned with their union would have been coerced into signing a ‘bad deal’. Quite the opposite.
As to your point about reapportioning wealth, please tell me with a straight face who’s hard done by here? In 1992 they were earning around £44,500! For a 35 hour week!! With 43 days holiday!!! 43!!! And a guaranteed job regardless of what strife the rest of us are going through above ground. God knows what the going rate is there now.
A mate of mine has worked for TFL for 13 years and readily admits he’s got the cushiest job around. He also votes for every strike so he gets an extra day of xbox. No joke.
So, the tube workers want triple time plus a day off in lieu for working boxing day, since the day off in lieu will be taken later with holiday pay that’s quadruple pay!
Is that a reasonable request from the tube workers, whether it’s coming from the unions or individuals it matters not, is it a reasonable request?
Let’s put another take on it, what if TFL quadrupled the tube fares on boxing day to cover the extra pay, would that work. Would the public be prepared to pay four times the normal fare or would they simple boycott the service? Or, what if Londoners had to pay quadruple rates for boxing day and/or Bank Holidays, would that not insight riots?
Come on tube workers do the job you signed up for at the going rate, lots of us have to work on boxing day and bank holidays and I’m fairly sure the majority only get double time at best.
I don’t know, I have limited editorial control over the BBC being as I work on a building site.
Union fatcats screwed the country and I go way back to the 70’s on this when we (Army) stood in for dustmen strike and firemens strike
they ruined and destroyed the coal industry
where is our car industry…JAPAN, Korea, Malaya need I say more
but is Scargill roughing it…no is he bollox he still living in free mining house, getting paid while his members are unemployed
my union (tgwu) if i wanted to join it is too busy sucking up to get fooking knighthoods rather than fight for better fuel prices etc
what about the scuzzbuckets threatening strikes next year…guess the military be called in AGAIN to stand in on there R&R from warzones…wow that fair on them aint it
so as Rixxy said its a BIKE FORUM and bollox to unions
I thought Thatcher shut down the mines?
I certainly wouldn’t want to work down a mine, it was too right that they had a strike and a union (they lost by the way)
I do seem to find it strange how normal thinking people can condemn unions and (worthy) strike action… I don’t agree with the tube staff striking though seeing as they do it every second sunday over peanuts
Yet again, I refer you to my original post…this is because they have a Union that fights for them!!
You can’t point out that they do well, then in the same breath complain about the Union, it isn’t logical. They do well BECAUSE of the Union, because the Union uses its clout, uses its power and rigorously pushes for the best deals they can get.
I look upon the Union request as no different to viewing a bike being sold for £2000 and offering £1400…yeah you know the guy won’t go for it, but you hope that this will bring him down a few pegs and you will get the bike cheaper.
Who knows if they will strike unless they get triple pay, that could simply be a negotiating position. Which is why I am loathe to condemn them on a report which is basically the mouth piece of the “opposition” in this negotiation.
NinjaJunkie, I think we were separated at birth, you clearly got the good communication skills and I obviously got the looks
Violent revolution is the only solution.
And now I’ve just found out that the Arsenal game might be postponed because of the strike action… Great…
free education and the NHS
errrrrrr, what ???
Kaos and waxy are both correct, waxy is correct in saying they take the piss - because they do and they can so why not? if you don’t like it, don’t use the tube, organise a mass no tube and bus week and see how much money they lose. I agree with Kaos that they can and should, why shouldn’t they? The rich screw the poor over everyday.
I’m not even going to touch on the topic of unions, that deserves a whole different thread, but in a nutshell they are good and they are bad.
Its quite ludicrous to say its anything to do with the power of the unions. There are no real alternatives for many people who use the tube to travel, so even without a union the train drivers could easily create some sort of system whereby they could agree not to turn up for work. The fact that there is no practical alternative mode of transport to the tube means that the cost to the millions of ordinary hard working individuals who cannot drive through the congestion charge everyday far exceeds the cost of acceding to the strikers demands. Why do tube workers not consider how they are affecting many people who cannot afford to to go to work by other means like cleaners and nurses?
You only have to consider for example when fuel protesters blockaded petrol refineries to understand how a few individuals can almost cause paralysis within a matter of days. Just as the government doesn’t allow refinery blockades anymore nor should it allow people to hijack such a vital service for people many of whom could not afford to travel any other way.
How hard can it be anyway, to rest your hand on a handle?
public transport is the very reason why i got my bike licence done.
its a frigging joke in a place like London that over 14 years that i’ve been living here the only thing they will never been able to fix for good is public transport, and thats because of the unions. the cost of using public transport has gone so high i actually bless every single day i can take my bike to work.
i actually remember that when i came here 14 years ago delays on the tube were not that common, so with all this money the public has pumped into their pockets we should have superfast tracks by now. the only thing they do is ask for more money in exchange for a worse service.
one quick comment about this all strike thing, xmas comes every year at the same time so how come they just realize now they are not happy about working on public holidays and want an extra day off and some other bits.
if thats not taking the piss, i dont know what is.
Yeah - we pay tax for our education and health system - but if you are ever unfortunate enough to find yourself with jack all you will still be able to send your kids to school and will get patched up by the NHS - regardless of how much money you have in the bank - unlike say the United States (e.g. in terms of health care).