Another parking question

I’m sure this has been asked before but I haven’t been able to find it on the search function. I’m new, so am pleading ignorance anyway :Whistling:

My apartment block has recently decided to change their parking policies, to only allow one vehicle. Unfortunately, my flat-mate has a car and he owns the flat. You can see where this is going…

Any way, my plan is to cover my bike, and lock the cover onto the bike so it can’t be removed. They won’t be able to see my number plate, and thus won’t be able to prove it is my bike. I’m assuming they can’t damage the cover to remove it as they are just a private company attempting to enforce a civil contract, not a bylaw or criminal charge, and I’m not breaking any laws with regards to displaying tax/license as it’s private land?

Any thoughts on this?

It’s still going to be parked in that bay, which belongs to to the flat where you guys live, right?

Yes, they won’t be able to know the bike is yours but they will know which door to knock on, won’t they?
…I mean there might be repercussions on your flatmate I believe.

he didn’t say they have a bay, it’s probably just a residents car park that they can each keep one vehicle in ?

I’d assume tho

It’s not a designated bay as Martin pointed out, and also I failed to point out it’s not actually parked in a bay at all at the moment - nicely tucked off to one side! And the parking enforcement company is different to the building owner - neither of which are spectacularly efficient! We shall see.

Is the bike anchored?

Yup it is, Almax series IV, ain’t nobody gonna be lifting it off! Unless they have an angle grinder…

So you’re alright, If you say they’re not efficient they probably won’t be bothered for a bike and won’t go that far…

Always careful with jelous neighbours :wink:

If it is private enforcement company, and you are parking on private land - enforcement can only be by contract. What contract are you party to?

I guess technically the signs they have put up constitute the contract. However, my thinking is they cannot tow or clamp my vehicle - this is illegal - and if they can’t read y license plate/ VIN etc they don’t know who the bike belongs to and therefore who to pursue for the ticket. I may be barking up the wrong tree - but most of these jobsworths will probably not bother with the hassle!

Yeah, but if you don’t actually read the signs then there’s no contract :slight_smile:

I am in a similar position to you except that that has been the policy of my block since before I moved in.

Spaces are not allocated to a property but you have a parking permit that you display - not all apartments have spaces.

People have always parked motorbikes and mopeds in places not designated for cars and there has never been a problem.

As long as you don’t annoy people by being conspicuous or noisy then they will probably leave you alone.

What normally happens is that someone without a permit will try to park overnight at the weekend when the concierge is not here and a resident will call the clampers, otherwise they rarely visit.

isnt it easier to have a polite word with your landlord, giving that the bike takes little space so it could fit between cars? :unsure:

I assume there is no cctv belonging to the parking company? Also, which company is it?

It’s PCM (Parking Control Management), Slacker. I can’t find anything about them using CCTV, and I know they don’t own the CCTV in place.

And we’ve tried talking to the landlord SilveR6 - I even suggested they create designated motorcycle/scooter parking, but they seem uninterested.

Does anyone know if they have the ability to remove a locked cover if they can’t do it without damaging it?

The argument that reading a sign then parking constitutes a contract has never been tested in court, and never will be because there are too many loopholes and if the principle gets thrown out by the court too many companies stand to lose their entire business model. So they get money from people too stupid to ignore their letters, and don’t take to court those that do ignore them.

For example, how do they know who read the sign and parked the vehicle? Unlike local authority parking offences where they can ticket the registered keeper, the contract principle relies on them identifying the person who parked the vehicle otherwise they have no one to enforce the contract against. If you get a parking enforcement ticket simply write back asking for their evidence it was you that parked the vehicle and their evidence you entered into a contract. As long as you don’t admit it was you, and there is no reason why you should, they have no one to go to court to enforce the contract. You will probably never hear from them again. Even if they have CCTV of you parking the vehicle, they have no reason to know what you look like, and they still have to prove you entered into a contract, which you can only do knowingly and willingly.

Well, PCM is a member of BPA (British Parking Association) and as such they must adhere to BPA’s code of practice. One of the sections states:

A driver who uses your private car park with your
permission does so under a licence or contract with you.
If they park without your permission this will usually be
an act of trespass. In all cases, the driver’s use of your land
will be governed by your terms and conditions, which the
driver should be made aware of from the start. You must
use signs to make it easy for them to find out what your
terms and conditions are.

Since there is no way they will have “motorcycle covers” covered (pun not intended) in their T&C on their sign, I don’t see them tampering with your cover just to get to the license plate. It would obviously get them in trouble with BPA in case you complained. And, there is no way they would win at POPLA (independent appeal service) with that kind of conduct.

That was the case until quite recently, however the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 changed that (in England and Wales, but not Scotland). If PPCs (Private Parking Companys) do not know the driver, they will contact the registered keeper, and if the registered keeper does not name the driver, the keeper will be liable for the PCN. Note, members of BPA (like PCM) have the power and will get the details of the registered keeper through DVLA once they have the license plate. Now whether it goes to court or not is a different matter. It is very unlikely that it will. Unless it’s “Parking Eye”, lately those guys seem to be on a crusade taking an unusually large amount of people to small claims court.

P.S. According to BPA they do not employ anpr cameras, so they can’t get your plate when you’re leaving/entering the car park.

P.P.S. There are some experienced guys in dealing with parking fines etc. on here if you wish further advice.

Thanks for the advice guys! Sounds like I’ll be in the clear with the cover. And I am yet to get a ticket, but we shall wait and see!

So the law allows a firm to take the registered keeper to court over a contract he was not party to. That’s absurd!

That it is. Unless your car was stolen, or you tell the PPC who the driver was, they can take you to court for some ridiculous speculative invoice.