Hello to all you lovely London Bikers
I’m off to court in December to contest a parking ticket I received from TFL. They caught me parking on the pavement, using one of those CCTV cams operated by someone in a control room.
The offence is “parked with one or more wheels on any part of an urban road other than a carriageway (footway parking)”
I appealed the fine, stating in my defence that I was only stopped for two minutes to pop into a show. I parked on the pavement but was sure to leave considerable space around my bike for anyone to get past, inc wheelchairs, buggies etc.
I was on my way to Europe at the time and I had soft luggage on my bike at the time, I wanted to park in front of the shop so I could keep an eye on the bike in case anyone tried to steal any of my luggage.
They barely even seemed to consider my appeal and just seem to be going with the approach of ‘you were parked on the pavement now pay up’. I never even denied parking on the footpath but I gave them my reasons why and it seems like the didn’t even give them a look.
Does anyone have anything, or anything I might be able to use in my defence? They want £130 from me, it takes me two days at work to earn that much money, I’m not giving it away easily…
Thanks very much to anyone who wishes to contribute any advice towards me.
Please don’t start saying ‘Your mistake just pay the fine’ because I don’t want to hear any of that sort of talk. If you think that parking a motorcycle on the pavement for 2 mins for a good reason warrants a £130 fine then you can fuck1ng pay it for me.
Do you have anything to show it was only 2 mins ?
Write to them and make sure that they save the entire video of you arriving, parking and leaving again (otherwise they will later claim that it no longer exists and that the only proof is the photo of you parked on the pavement). Then take them to arbitration and argue about how disproportionate the “fine” is to the actual harm caused. Even if the fine is justified (it’s an absolute offense - either you did or you didn’t park where you shouldn’t), it’s a ridiculous amount and the amount is in no way justifiable.
I strongly suggest you get on to the fightback forums at http://forums.pepipoo.com/ where there are people who will help.
I know that feels bro! :Whistling: I’ve no advice, but wishing you the best of luck
They have the video footage? I could apply for that?
Here are some stills they sent me from the video…
Of course they have video footage - that’s where the stills are from. Get ye to the fightback forums!
Thanks for the advice guys…
The time stamped stills show a close up of my plate at 20:51:27, and I’m back next to the bike at 20:52:31…
Is there some sort of rule about giving somebody two minutes?
Simon you raise a good point there, I will argue that the fine does not reflect the severity of the offence at all. That Biffa bin further up the road is much more of an obstruction anyway!
First thing that strikes me is WTF has that got to do with TFL??? The local authority would be the owner of the pavement and therefore they should have fined you if anyone - or am I wrong about that?
I would if I were you get your ass over to Pepipoo. They will want scans of the documents you have received (with your name and address etc hidden of course). They generally give very good advice as to whether it is contestable or not.
Yep, the letter came direct from TFL. And haha yes I know it’s video footage, what I meant was… ‘Do you have proof that it was only 2 minutes’ to which i replied ‘they have the video footage?’ as in, the video footage would be proof.
They want to charge me a tenner to obtain a copy of the footage!??!
Or I could go and view it for free at their Croydon office. During office hours. So I’d have to take a day off work.
Again, thanks. Will hit up the guys on pepipoo…
So you might be able to point out you were “loading” and in that case TFL have a document that states they need to observe you for at least 5 minutes. The same document says “The rules for loading and unloading differ from those for other parking activities.” So - you might be able to infer enough confusion in their policies to get this decided in your favour. Anyway - I’m no expert so see what the Pepipoo bods say.
If it is evident to be used in a court surely you should be able to access it free of charge? Otherwise how can you formulate a defence if you cannot analyse the evident.
Perhaps it could be a form of defence that they refuse to provide the video?
I have heard about the 2 minutes and 10 seconds rule for cctv cameras catching you on double yellow lines - to clear up any defences about ‘stopping’ rather than ‘parking’ ,
But since parking on a pavement where public have access is an ‘absolute’ offence - ie you either commit it or don’t , there is no time limit. Therefore it is down to discretion of TFL, if you could have said you were rushing into the Pharmacy for emergency medication for an elderly relative with a heart condition you might have swung it.
ps you can see that the wheely bin takes up much more room than your bike ( and is a bigger danger to pedestrians )
Sorry Conrad, no advice to give :crying: but best of luck with it.
However on the subject of these camera operators, it recently became apparent that one of our young neighbours does this for a job. He got a 10 minute lesson on how easy it is for bikes to be stolen and what to look out for when an attempt is being made. He was amazed and promised to try to help. During this conversation it became apparent that they are very poorly trained as to exactly what they ARE looking for and just scan around a bit by the sound of it.
Again, thanks for all the good advice… Kevsta you raise a very good point!
Oh and motopup - you can DO ONE :hehe:
I got done but mine was in a car. All I had done was pull in from a main road into a lay by side road where there were shops to pick a friend up.
The end exit was blocked so I just stayed on the road bit for all of 10secs to pick my friend up then pulled off. Because the entrance of the lay by road was where people walked off the pavement, onto the road (entrance of lay by) and then back onto the pavement it apparently counted as the pedestrian right of way (even though it was a sodding side road)! I was furious to say the least. 10 secs was long enough for them.
Anyway my point is after trying to research the only info I could find for some defense was if a road sign was displayed showing video survellance. (Standard camera sign). If there was not one, you may have a case. Don’t quote me on this - get some advice from some of those websites (but in my case, when I went back to the scene to check there was a sign except someone had twisted it round so it wasn’t clear!).
This was council controlled and I went on their website to access camera fine stats and noticed this particular camera was raking it in!
(These cameras a sky high, unless you know they are there you’ll never clock them).
Such beggars they are. As if TFL aren’t making enough money from the congestion charge, low emission zone costs, constant pcn revenue, not to mention the obscenely extortionate costs for public transport. I’m only 24 but I can remember the days when it cost 40p to take the bus… Now it’s £2.30 a pop… Bloody TFL! I really don’t want to give them 130 of my hard earned cash…
As far as I’m aware CCTV can only be used to enforce parking offences when the use of a traffic warden is not possible. I’d ask to see evidence of the documentation giving them permission to use CCTV in this case at all. It doesn’t matter if it’s a clear cut offence if their evidence is inadmissible. And, as others have said, wtf has it got to do with TFL?? And they can’t charge you for the video if it’s part of the evidence pack they’re submitting to support their case.
But yeah, get yourself to one of the sites that specifically deal with this sort of stuff and you’ll find loads of good advice. I use this one from time to time: Consumer Action Group
I am not sure wtf this has to do with TFL …since when do they control the pavements? I thought this was a council issue.
Check everything such as signage and paperwork as TFL are very sloppy. Also as far as I know they cannot charge you for the video if its going to court.
Are you sure something wasn’t wrong with your bike and you thought it safer to get off the road and go into a store to ring for assistance? happened to me on regent street and I got off
That’s Boris Johnson. Elected Tory Major.