Active Counter Steering Advice

I found pushing on the foot pegs also turns the bike but what I think is happening there is that I’m pushing the bars as well, is that right ?

I found track days the perfect way to practice, find a notive track day and go in the novice or slow group, feels like a load of old women :w00t: but that’s how I was riding when I first passed my test and Bikesafe and track days were the two things that helped the most.

Yes. :slight_smile: When you think you are only pushing on the pegs you will unconsciously be pushing on the bars on the same side (or pulling on the opposite side). The trick is to do it consciously! :wink:

what works for me:

countersteering with left and controlling the throttle with my right hand, stupid but simple, i try not to use my right hand to countersteer.

if i panic in a bend i

a) run wide because of tightening up my body

b) stand the bike up and brake

but what is really important is that if you can brake in the bend you could have as well made that bend without braking. 'cos if you have enough grip to brake, you still have lots and lots grip available to lean furher.

it’s all belief in tyres.

I think videos / visuals help…so check these out :slight_smile:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Motorcycle+counter+steering&search=Search

especially this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5WwlUMvJzs

hope these help :stuck_out_tongue:

Excellent links. :slight_smile:

Thanks all for the replies.

I have thought about the ride with the ’close calls’ that prompted my original post, and was definitely caning it too much on unfamiliar bends. Got a bit carried away I reckon, hadn’t been on the bike for a couple of days, dry weather, clear-ish roads, and the twists of the Crooked Mile.
It’s the panic mode I need to overcome (besides not going into corners too fast in the first place!) despite my limited knowledge of counter steering I was trying to turn the handlebars into the direction of the corner which, of course, made me more upright and pushed me even wider (must come from the cycling days).

I suppose I need to put a bit more confidence in the bike as well when it comes to cornering – I remember asking one of the coppers on Bikesafe how far I could realistically lean my bike on a bend, and his answer ? “You will give up before it will”.
Despite my restriction on my licence not running out for over a year (it’s crap having to do things on the cheap) I am still trying to decide what my next bike is gonna be – either a Bandit or SV650s, so they should be a bit more suited to twisties…

Ratty cheers for the offer, we will def, have to get ourselves down the Crooked Mile again soon fella !
Gonna do a few slower runs of it myself to get extra practice in on bends and try and improve my lines and technique, and then pick up the pace a bit.

I suppose the question I was trying to ask was, if I found myself going too fast into a corner and starting to run wide, should I counter steer a little more in the hope of getting a better lean ? Isn’t there a risk if my laying the bike on its side ?

Cheers.

the thing you need to think about is is what is ‘too fast’. if you have gone actually too fast for your bike to make the corner even doing all the right things, its game over pretty much, so try not to do taht ;). What is more often the case is too fast for your abilities, and this is mostly mental as your brain just doesn’t like what you’re doing with a motoribike to start with.

when you get into a corner and get frightened, the instincts are to chop the throttle and or/brake, and look at the solid objects you think you’re about to get intimate with (target lock) :pinch:. all of which ironcially can make your fears self fulfilling as they tend to widen your line.

the quickest/easiest way to learn how to really learn how to lean and corner is on track, where a mistake doesn’t get punished with a lamp-post. you hit the same corners again and again, with no ‘traffic issues’ to worry about, tarmac etc. if you can find safe twisty road to practice on, and prefer that then thats fine. There are ways to tighten the line on/off the throttle and braking whilst cornering, but its prob not wise to go into that here as it will just confuse things.

in general tho, if you find your sphincter pucking up as you enter the corner, focus only on the positive - stare (and i mean stare) at the apex of the corner (you go where you look) and then the exit when you know your bike is going to hit the apex or thereabouts. keep the throttle cracked open (just a bit/constant throttle so you’re not decelerating), and push the inside bar to adjust your lean angle, and try not to tense up (easier said than done) and be smooth

what lean is possible depends on the conditions, tyres, heat in those tyres, your machine control etc. so there isn’t a single answer. as was mentioned earlier in the thread, its almost always more than you think, especially when you’re starting out

I found that a good read…and ive been there and done exactly what you describe…;)…remember one time coming home from a ride, me and 2 others from work…dont know where it was, but we hit this bend, and i didnt think anything of it, just another bend…cept this one got tighter and tighter and didnt think the turn would ever stop !! it was like turning left for ever, and thing was i was in the middle of the other two, and guy in front was making a hash of it, cos we’d gone into it a bit faster than perhaps we should have…ive seen him heading for the barriers, and backed off and concentrated on getting myself round, he left his turn too late cos he was going fast and i just had to think about not doing the same…when we stopped i asked him what he was thinking when that happened and he said the obvious…:stuck_out_tongue: But its really difficult sometimes, not to panic and pull on the brake, cos as you say, initial reaction is to do just that…brain thinks, im going too fast and bikes saying yeh and if u do that im gonna chuck ur ass off !!! And yeh, couple of times ive come across a bend, and leaned into it and bikes gone round it brilliant…and im thinking hmmm not bad…i enjoyed that…then next time the bends not the same and im thinking oh crap, im not going to make this one…but i just looked at where i wanted the bike to go and you just end up steering that way, (missed a hedge doing that as well…phew! couldnt believe i got away with it either, i was THAT close to hitting it !!)…Ive been out a few times alone around Abridge lanes…cos i find i can concentrate on what i want to do when im alone?..dunno, sometimes when out with others, you see them do something and when you follow, its not your own lines, if you get what i mean?..Went out with AndyP last year, and we came across the famous roundabout you all like practising on, think ELAD took Drei there…and Andy took off round and round it, and i followed !! Never done it before, didnt even suss what the hell HE was doing at first !! Anyway, after about 5 times round and gradually getting lower and lower, i thought s$$t, im following him, cos i actually caught myself looking at his back wheel and following that, …stupid…so i pulled over and watched him go round another 4/5 times !!! Anyway, good read Johnnyboy :slight_smile:

all great responses - with some really good advice…

-only thing i’d add is:

ALWAYS ride within your OWN limits - especially on the roads…

…just cause you (or the person in front of you) is hooning into a bend / series of bends doesnt mean to say they come out of them…

why?:
they might be a more skilled rider than you
they might “know the road” better than you
etc…

BUT:
they might also be a stupid rider or think they are some kind of racer…

think we’d all agree - it’s great going fast through bends - right ? : but it’s better to finsh the slower ride than finish up with a f*cked bike and / or in hospital

Well, nice dry morning, stepson hasn’t gotta be taken to football this morning, so time to have another crack at the Crooked Mile :smooooth:

I have spent a fair bit of time this week reading and digesting the replies in the thread and also the excellent article on cornering here, and set out on my journey this morning.

The main difference between this time and last wasn’t necessarily the speed I was going into corners - it was mainly positioning. I was going into corners before with (I now realise) some very bad positioning, so the bends ended up extremely tight in some instances. Another mistake I made was ‘reading’ the bend wrong and not deciding on a decent line i.e. in some places, trying to follow the bend of the road instead of the most logical line to take the bike through the bend (comes from driving a car for years I reckon).:doze:

This time I positioned myself better, read the road much further ahead then I usually did, then looked for the apex of the bend and more importantly the exit point, and decided on my line from there - and the difference in the ride was amazing !!! No close calls at all - I really enjoyed myself. Did the crooked mile a few times plus some other roads I have no idea of the name.

Cheers again for the excellent and useful responses.:D:D:D

Nice one Mark. It does make a difference eh?

I love the Crooked Mike especially that dip after a left hander going towards the Abbey. Everytime I go that way I’m shot out of my seat:D

Sounds like you had more fun out there this time - wicked! :cool:

By the way I found Kieth Code’s Twist Of The Wrist a really interesting read. Theres a lot of info in there and I could only digest a little at a time but it’s really good. Don’t bother with the DVD’s though, they’re a bit of a waste of time although quite funny as they’re very comical and 80’s!

Just to hummor you and make you feel better, my younger brother and i was out and about one particular Saturday afternoon on a stretch of road between Fareham (nr Portsmouth) and heading north towards Alton. He was following behind and after a while i had noticed he was not there in my mirrors. So me and me mates turned around and went looking for him. As we passed the tea hut in the meon valley and looking in your mirrors like you do, i noticed a parting in the hedge on the bend, thought nothing of it but my sub-con mind i kept thinking about the hedge. We again turned around and went back to the parted farmers hedge and upon approach i could see a GSXR600 on its side with some fairing some feet away and also the body of my brother flat on his back. Well i did not panic and my thoughts were, s**t what am i going to tell our mother??? I jumped of my bike as did the others on theirs and ran over to him…blinking, starring up at us and with a smile he was ok…i asked him what he was doing…he said he was going to lay there just until someone came…then he would know that he was still alive, he had been there for an hour. When i asked him what had happened he replied that the bend was too steep for his speed and he lost his concentration and baild out into Mr Giles’s field.

Now your limits, know your bike and know what your doing…safely!

good on ya fella, glad it feels better now:D i nearly went up there today my self but i couldnt be arsed, i should have now! i went elswheer for abit, epping and HB area:)

Marklid, We’ve all done that sorta thing one time or another. The main thing is you didn’t bin it and you’ve learned something. :wink:

read all of that before Jim and it sounds pucker…therefore I know I must do it but I just dont see it when I ride…been trying to watch myself but it must be the merest of unintentional flicks…very interesting…

You must feel it more with your trike…what do you do…it must be much harder to steer or not?

I remember earlier this year when I have overcooked some corners in France. I am so lucky to have gone through bikesafe before setting off as I was (and still am) quite new to biking. The turn was much tighter than expected and I remember the near panic, chest tightening and my mind resisting the urge of breaking or cutting the throttle. I kept in my mind that I am more likely to crash by attempting to break than by leaning the bike more.

The bike just handled itself beautifully every time. We tend to underestimate (as beginners) how much a bike can lean.

Not sure if this is correct, but I always understood that if you keep high revs during a turn you are less likely to drift, and if you do, you are more likely to recover it. It certainly feels like it, but is this true?

why are you thinking of learning how to counter-steer. how about learning to ride within your own capabilities and reading the road, forward planning.if you are getting into situations where you have to panic brake or countersteer perhaps you should go on an advanced rider training…

If you ride quickly in twisties you are already counter-steering to an extent…if not, you’d be off:)

Thinking about it won’t make you get it right…just let it happen.

Back in 82 I went away for a week in Wales with some mates and because my Yamaha was off the road I hired a bike - turned out to be a very weary Z400 Kawasaki twin. Just about everything was on its way out, chain on its last legs, suspension iffy, tyres Ok but no better, at least the brakes seemed OK but they were never great on 80’s Kawas. Anyway, coming back from one of our days out with my mate’s g/f on the back I went into a right-hander a bit enthusiastically only to find it tightened up rather nastily. Nothing I could do, just kept the power going and leant it bit more. The bend seemed to go on forever and kept tightening, I kept leaning more, the droopy centre stand was raising sparks, I kept thinking, “Wiz, you can’t bin it, not with Clare on the back”! Somehow we got round and as we straightened up on the next bit I’m thinking, “thank feck for that!” and she’s bashing me on the shoulder yelling, “that was great, can we go back and do it again…”

Moral of the story, even a knackered old hack is much more capable of getting around than you think it is.

And I mean the bike, not me.