A Question for a copper

try telling that to someone who has a firework pointed at them by the little shits that roam the streets up to no good …you’ll never get the old bill to turn up unless there is a fine to issued and money to be made

keith-17 (31/10/2007)

Crikey! I thought that I was cynical mofo? luv’it!:smiley:

Is dealing with the crime/casualties easier/cheaper than prevention?

I’m sure we could have the police being willing to attend every incident a member of the public thinks needs their attention but how many police officers do we want ? How much would it cost ? I had to attend the x-ray dept of my local Hospital which is in the casualty department and whilst I was there I saw a number of poeple come and go, some with serious injuries but the vast majority with cuts and bruises, one chap in particualar rushed in with his son, he looked like he was in a bit of a panic and said he’d cut his son’s ear when he was cutting his hair . . . I expected the lad to be holding his ear on and blood pooring everywhere but it was a tiny little cut, only marginally worse than a shaving cut . . . wtf ?OK, this isn’t an example of wasting police time but I’m sure the same things happen to the police.

In a word… “YES”.

Do you expect the local officers to be patroling a holiday park on the off chance someone is letting of fireworks in a potentially dangerous manner? As always when police are mentioned on this forum the response is random abuse linked with sweeping statements :doze:

At any one in time in certain boroughs of London for example the amount of police actually patrolling the streets probably boils down to about maybe 2 panda cars, 4 response cars and 2 area cars. That’s usually 8 cars/16 PC’s to deal with every call put into the police in that area consisting of 100000+ people at one time. You do the maths. Say two cars make an arrest, that leaves 6 cars to do the same work for at least the next 2 hours. Sure it would be nice to be all things to all people, but that isn’t practical and calls must be prioritised.

Racial/domestic violence crime are priorities for political/good sense reasons and they will be given top billing above say an average theft for example. I’ve been the victim of criminal damage and theft myself and all I got was the telephone reporting system and no result… I understand this as the way the world is and there is no way that every crime can be given the time and service it deserves.

Anyways to the point of the post - It sounds like you should have been referred to the environmental health dept of the local council - they’re the people who deal with noise nuisance ie antisocial parties etc. Or what about security at the park?

I expect a usual response to dare to stick up for the most unappreciated job in the world…! :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m off to ride my bike and shut the rest of this hole we call London out for a few blissful hours!:cool:

Not sure Im gonna make sense here but Im with you on this one. So here goes any how…Any one seen the news over the last two days.

Incident One - two workmen trying to help a couple of young kids and stop them being harrassed by a gang of teenage yobs. Result they get their arses kicked in by the thugs and odds on they will not be found.

Incident two - Thug sets a firework off in a shop all caught on CCTV. Will he get caught… dificult to say because he had a hood on and his face covered.

It worries me when you see the news and here stats like… the top two priorities are terrorism and metal thiefs. Copper and lead prices are so high that this is now second only to terrorism in the fight on crime.

If yob culture and anti social behaviour is not high on the list then it amazes me, the laws suck private property or not something should be done to give the police powers to intervene in these type of incidents. You see these fly on the wall documentaries where the porr old coppers waste so much time and energy and all that results is generally they get let off with a caution or night in the cell! Not doing much for the credibility of the system is it!!15 coppers outside a night club at turning out time just in case is a waste of resources in my opinion so this type of incident deserves some formal response/prescence just to put the situation. Make the night club pay a premium to have the police presence to boost the coffers and make sure we have our officers back in the local community.Local communities NEED a visible presence. Just my opinion of course but this type of policing is not tangible in delivering performance related stats or crime figures is it I guess.

I didnt read that in the original question! I read that isnt prevention better than cure…or perhaps better than custody, in this case?/All it would prolly take is a quiet word from plod and the fireworks would prolly have been pointed a more lil’upwards?

Dr Zoidberg (31/10/2007)

Really! I thought in the main, most, on here, gave a very reasonable view towards plod and the task?

Very bad comparison if you ask me.Yep, fully agree with you, if the operator had explained this fully to the Sleeper then I’m sure it wouldn’t have led to this thread.I appreciate you said you don’t think it can be called a ‘civil offence’ (the term is actually dispute - it is a dispute as no ‘offence’ has taken place) but that is exactly what it is. As it was explained to me (and you) there is no offence unless this was taking place after 11pm. All the rest are what if’s and have nothing at all to do with the lack of response.
As already mentioned, noise etc etc is all down to the council noise teams.You are quite right, being careless with fireworks is very dangerous but so is a multitude of other things that are also not a criminal offence such as juggling knifes - it doesn’t mean to say that they can be nicked for it though. As to the rest of your post … well we agree … it’s just I get narked at the finger getting pointed at those on the ground.

Very sensationalist post … do ya write newspaper headlines as well ? ;)Keith, you know for a fact that Police turn up at incidents that don’t involve a fine and to say other wise is rubbish.

Of course it is … the argument isn’t with me it’s with the way that the Police are ran. It’s been fully explained above.

I understand plod has a lot to do. But what about all them brave PCSO’s? Can’t see many ? 1000’s recruited they say.

Is it because prevention and raising awareness can not be measured? Unlike crimes and offences that can? And it’s much easier to translate numbers into budget?

You’ve hit the nail on the head mate.
The Home Office want to see what they are getting for the money that is ploughed into the Police and some things just can’t be measured.
No one will ever know just what a uniformed copper has prevented by being out on foot patrol and talking to the public - mind you it’s different now, when I first joined, I could quite happily walk up to some kids who were being a little mischevous and say - ‘what you up to, behave and get home’ - today, that would be a form for each kid spoken to and more paperwork - there is more paperwork to do now than when I pounded the beat.There is a huge number of Officer’s (though they have increased the numbers by many over recent years) not on the streets - what the goverment has not said is that the number of Officers on various specialist units has dramatically increased(quite rightly - they are needed there too) and the number of Officer’s on response teams - answering your 999 calls has decreased.
For instance - the team I was on when I joined in the early 90’s used to regularly put out about 30 - 40 Officers per shift to patrol and answer 999 calls - that same station on certain shifts now is lucky if they have double figures out on patrol - they do have a load of PCSO’s though. PCSO’s do actually have a role to play in my opinion but they will never replace the copper on the street, which is what the public want to see and answer thier calls.
They have brought in things such as Safer Neighbourhood teams which cover each ward in London, it is something which is good and almost a return of the old style homebeat Officers but those Officers have been taken from somewhere - yep, reponse teams. Those Officers can and do respond to calls too but they also have other duties to perform and often (not all the time) those teams will mostly work during the day and early evening - not on a Friday or Saturday night shift when it is all kicking off.

On some shifts I will hear over the radio that a station has dozens, yes dozens, of emergency calls outstanding with no one to send to them - those are calls that have been classified as needing an immediate response … I don’t know what is needed to be done to change this for the better … lots more Officers probably, money is needed for that and it is money that dictates how the Police is run just like every other service - NHS, LFB etc etc etc.

Quite a few coppers get defensive when people rant about Police responses and not getting the service they deserve, I am one of them at times. The problem is that it is very very frustrating at times working with huge constraints that are dictated to us from the very rear/high echelons of the Sevice and Goverment. The problem is that we are the face of the problem though it is not caused by us - what you the public should be doing when you get a crappy response is writing to your MP’s and Senior Officer’s of the Borough that you live in - what that will achieve though is another matter but it will let them know that you are not happy. Attend local meetings with the Police and make sure that the local team are aware of the problems that you suffer and tel them that you want and expect them to do something about it.

Remember that I live in London too and I want to see us all getting the best service possible … how that can be done with huge restrictions and budget constraints though is a puzzle to me.

I may have a touch of the seconds about this post and remove it shortly - I may have been a bit too frank and get in the poo about this so nobody quote it please … ta !

i spent 20 mins the other day at bexleyheath police station not a soul to be seen in the reception .passed mcds drive through low and behold a police car queuing outrageous you say they shouldn’t have to queue they are to busy for that

Not too sure if I get what you mean … a copper isn’t allowed to eat on a 12 hours shift ? or that they should be allowed to jump the queue ??

Jump the queue I say. Isn’t that really what the blues and twos for B ??


So anyway, I’ve just spent 20mins reading all this and still don’t know what it’s got to do with bikes.

Sleeper? Don’t have kids (sell’em) - less to worry about. That’s my motto.

That’ll be why this in the ‘general’ section then, will it! :stuck_out_tongue:

“British Law is ridiculous - I don’t envy the Police for having to walk away from some incidents… I bet they don’t half swear at not being able to do anything. It’s not the individual officers fault, it’s the system. The wrong things are focused on. Now that’s my opinon.”

And one I happen to agree with.

Trojan, it’s very refreshing to read your very intelligent posts on this thread. LOADS of touchy subjects very honestly touched.

Picture this: long, grey ears, tail that needs to be held on with a drawing pin, over-sized teeth, stubborn, unreasonable, standing in the corner of a field surrounded by thistles. It’s not for nuffink that they say “the law is an ass”! :smiley: