A black day for Poker fans.....

In one of the strangest jury decisions ever, the owner of the [fantastic] Gutshot Club in Clerkenwell has been found guilty of running an illegal game. The persecution case hinged on the [stupid] argument that Poker is a game of chance, not skill. Sadly the jury somehow came to the conclusion that Doyle Brunson, Stu Ungar etc, made it past 5/10,000 other tournament players at the WSOP so many times by pure luck.


And ?

dont know how to play poker, but looks sooooo boring

“dont know how to play poker”

Neither do the people who made the ruling, by the sound of it. I wonder if they’d up for a game, for money of course - it’s all luck, after all…

Oh, it’s boring to watch, but not to play.

Poker is a game of chance… Betting is where the skill lies.

what are you talking about front?..

do some research before voicing your “obviously” un-educated view.

Its a game of both chance and skill, but for the majority its skill.

bluffing, slow playing, knowing when to re-raise, when to fold… its all skill, doyle brunson won the WSOP 9 times, out of more than 100,000 people each time. if it was a game of chance, you calculate the probability of him winning it 9 times, you’d be more likely to win the lottery.

There goes my plans for next Thursday night then…

Maybe not quite a strange decision because the jury agreed there was an element of luck combined with skill so it fell within the licensing category.

Great game, not that i`m good at it but i think i was lucky at our last game…you taught me well Kao5

Poker is a wicked game, especially when played with friends, for little, but important funds.

If it is a game of chance, then why haven’t I ever won a game???

Yes, it looks like the wording of the law catches pretty much anything, even chess as a mate pointed out…

But is there a little bit of scandal brewing ? …remember the government have already got in trouble for taking donations , gifts and being too close to the big gambling empires, e.g. http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labour/comment/0,,1814720,00.html

This interesting piece is on the Gutshot.com website…

"The defense immediately resumed cross examination of the prosecution witness. Zeeshan Dhar explained that ‘AIM Ltd,’ an independent detection agency had been commissioned by Mr. John Butler, Director of Compliance at RANK (who own Grosvenor Casinos – five of them in London) to carry out covert enquiries into Gutshot. Henry Kirkup had apparently received a copy of the ‘AIM’ report on 19

December 2004. Zeeshan Dhar asked Mr. Kirkup to have a look at the report.

“To put it tactfully, there were several other interested parties that might have pushed the prosecution in the ‘right’ direction?” Zeesham Dhar continued, “I call this a report but it looks more like ‘AIM’s brief was not simply to ‘report’ but to collect evidence.”

Zeeshan Dhar went on to say that there would be links between the Gaming Board and the Casinos (and pointed out that he did not want to imply anything sinister in that association) but asked if there was a distinction between reporting and actively collecting evidence for a prosecution…he then asked…

“Would it be right to say that RANK wanted to bring this case?”In a second report dated 13 August 2004 (sent from AIM to RANK) the details were with reference to investigating details of directors of the Gutshot Private Members Club. Zeshan Dhar then pointed out that the first AIM report had been commissioned just at the time that the Gaming Commission and the Police looked to be dropping the case

…What came out in court was, the head of the gaming commission is also a director of AIM Ltd, so clearly there is a conflict of interest and also a question of, just how much influence do the casinos have over the gaming commission, keeping in mind they are the industry regulators."

Bigger question 666… Do you know English?

Poker: -noun a card game played by two or more persons, in which the players bet on the value of their hands, the winner taking the pool.


–verb (used with object)

1.to wager with (something or someone).

–verb (used without object)

2.to make a wager: Do you want to bet?


3.a pledge of a forfeit risked on some uncertain outcome; wager: Where do we place our bets?

4.that which is pledged: a two-dollar bet.

5.something that is bet on, as a competitor in a sporting event or a number in a lottery: That horse looks like a good bet.

6.an act or instance of betting: It’s a bet, then?

7.a person, plan of action, etc., considered as being a good alternative; choice: Your best bet is to sell your stocks now.


8.you bet! Informal. of course! surely!: You bet I’d like to be there!

Hopefully before calling an opinion “un-educated” you should know exactly where words like, “bluffing”, “slowplaying”, “re-raising”, and “folding” (the act of not placing a bet) fall.

p.s. I am not trying to attack, simply defending my claim.

listen mr front, the point I was trying to make is, I win about 80% of every poker game I enter, and ive played about 2-3 thousand so far. so in conclusion, the game is about skill mostly but does have some luck involved.

I have no idea why you wrote your life story above, but don’t give us your opinion (and a very brief & vague one at that) of matters which you have no knowledge about. that was my point.

And about knowing English, im sorry, but I thought I’d have to make it look chav-ier for you to comprehend, and i dont have the time to write in the correct manner, and spell check this ****, like you probably do.

Ok, let me break this down for you. 5 card stud is a quick calculation

The probability that you will make…Expressed in percent (%) is…The odds against it are…Number of possible combosStraight Flush0.0064,973 to 140Four-of-a-kind0.024,164 to 1624Full House0.14693 to 13,744Flush0.20508 to 15,108Straight0.39254 to 110,200Three-of-a-kind2.1146.3 to 154,912Two-Pair4.7520.0 to 1123,552Pair of A,K,Q,J
6.69 to 1
337,920Shorts (10’s - 2’s)29.252.42 to 1760,320

You bet against the chance of having a hand, thus the skill of the game is interpretation of how to make your bet in comparison to others bets. If this still is too much of a “life story” then I can go even simpler…

52 cards, I draw one, I bet $xxxxxxxxxxxx that it’s an ace of spades, now the skill would be how you read my bet, quickly calculate the odds of the draw, rationalize whether you want to risk said bet, and on and on.

This brings me back to my original statment: Poker is simply a game of chance (like all card games), the skill of poker does not lie on the cards you get bet rather on how you bet with those cards.

p.s. I wasn’t regarding the manner in which you type but rather your comprehension of the words you were using. Also when you read this remember I am using a polite tone.

you’re obviously talking about another sort of poker, im talking about no limit texas hold 'em. but anyway, you’ve got your opinion, and i’ve got mine. whenever you do choose to play this game, you’ll understand what its about.

Well don’t worry I was playing it before it became a television show…

If it were a game of chance how come the same people win all the time.

I swear do you read what others write or do you just go “I’ll assume he meant this…”?

The same people win because they know how to bet, have you ever seen Moneymaker taken out cuz he got a few unlucky hands and bet stupidly??? I have.

but who the **** cares about money maker?..

why dont you watch daniel negreanu, or mike caro, or the famous doyle brunson, or phil ivy, these are great players that are seen on the last table of the WSOP time after time.

Front, i think you’re the one who thinks he’s an expert because of watching a few games on TV. so please… do us all a favour, and organise a poker game, ill join, take all your money then leave, then you can come back on this site, and say “it was luck”…


Ok I see that I have to make this concept VERY EASY to understand.

It is LUCK to get a pair.

It is LUCK to get a 3 of a kind.

It is LUCK to get a straight.

It is LUCK to get a flush.

It is LUCK to get 4 of a kind.

It is SKILL to bluff someone out of a winning hand when you have is something less.

It is SKILL to slow-play someone when you have a winning hand to get the most out of them.

It is SKILL to know when to call someones bluff…

Do you understand that getting the hands is PURE LUCK?

How you bet on the hand is the SKILL.

If you still think I have no concept of poker then more power to ya and best of luck.